Gauragopala Das ACBSP: The original constitutional position of the jiva-souls is nitya-siddha. This means they can change from being eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) back to eternally liberated (nitya siddha)

Originally all jiva-souls are nitya-siddha as a spiritual bodily form, there is no such thing of one class of marginal living entities (jiva-souls) being only nitya-siddha and another class being only nitya-baddha.

No, originally ALL jiva-souls are nitya-siddha.

This means all nitya-baddhas were originally nitya-siddha Prabhupada has explained.

Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, the jiva-soul can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (NY City Lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

The majority of jiva-souls (over 90%) never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana; only less than 10% choose to enter the material creation Prabhupada explains here.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once, or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, the whole material world, all the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population are outside the prison house. Similarly, the majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world, only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence and free will but everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example is just like a government constructs a prison house because the government knows that some will be criminals. So, their shelter must also be constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent per cent population will be criminal, but the government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise, why do they construct prison house also?

One may say, "Where are the criminals? You are constructing a prison?" But Government knows there will be criminals. So, if the ordinary government can know, why God can not also know? Because there is always tendency."

Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka or Vaikuntha) is what? From where does that tendency come?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. For example, when a man is dreaming, he forgets himself. In a dream he creates himself in different forms—"Now I am the king." This creation of himself is as two things – 1) as the seer, and 2) as the subject matter, or seen.

As soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears, but the seer remains; now he is in his original, awake position.

Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification.

Even when we are with Krsna the desire for sense gratification is there. There is a tendency to forget Krsna and create an atmosphere for enjoying independently from Krsna.

At the edge of the beach, sometimes water covers the sand, and sometimes there is dry sand; the ocean is coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide.

As soon as we forget Krsna, immediately illusion is there; just as when we sleep, a dream is there.

We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Krsna, as soon as we try to become Krsna immediately we're covered by maya.

Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or sport, but this covering of maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going.

Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are forever conditioned, but this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually goes to Krsna.

In a dream we think a very long time is passing, but as soon as we awaken from the dream we look at our watch and see it has been only a moment.

Another example is how Krsna’s friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they awoke and Krsna returned, they considered that only a moment had passed.

This "dreaming" condition is called non-liberated life, it is just like a dream.

Although by material calculation it is a long, long, long long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness this period is considered less than a moment.

Jaya and Vijaya, the gate keepers at a gateway to Vaikuntha, the spiritual world, once refused entrance to four great sages, the Kumaras. The sages then cursed Jaya and Vijaya to fall to the material world.

Lord Visnu gave the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha a choice, to play out their curse in the material creation for 7 life times as devotees, or 3 life times demons.

The sages agreed to this by saying that after three births as demons, Jaya and Vijaya would be again reinstated to their former post in Vaikuntha.

Thus Jaya and Vijaya eventually attained sayujya-mukti, merging into the body of the Lord for a short time, and then returning back home, back to Godhead in Vaikuntha, the spiritual world.

This is discussed in Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto Three, chapters fifteen and sixteen, and Canto Seven, chapter one.

Jaya and Vijaya had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down [to the material world] for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya [Lord Krsna’s impersonal effulgence], after being killed three times as demons.

This Brahma-sayujya mukti is nonpermanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahma-sayujya is lacking in pleasure; it consists only of eternal existence.

So when those who get Brahma-sayujya mukti do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss, for example, by founding schools and hospitals.

Even Lord Brahma wants to lord it over the material world. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back home, back to Godhead. This is the position.

So when I say yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only to Brahma-sayujya but eventually falls down.

But after millions and millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like a dreaming moment.

Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti), he thinks that this may be his origin, but he does not remember that even before that, he was with Krsna.

So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna.

It is a waste of time for a diseased man to try to find out how he has become diseased; better to spend time curing the disease." ('Crow-And-Tal-Fruit Logic' letter to Madhudvisa Swami, July 1972 Melb, Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - ''When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But, when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Record Album, NY City USA Dec, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna, he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, it is a difficult task." (London lecture on BG Ch 13, 14, July 14, 1973)

Acyutananda - "So what made the jiva-soul take birth in the first place in the material creation?"

Srila Prabhupada - "In the first place?"

Acyutananda - "What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes that is stated in the Prema vivarta:

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare

We are eternal servants of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got that independence.

Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah, we are part and parcel of Krsna, so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence.

Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on SB Canto 5 Ch 5 text 2, Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, one never returns to the material creation."

Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - ''He can return?''

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, that is voluntary, that independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk Feb 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura - ''When the marginal living entity has contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha, material rasas (tastes and desires) are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas." (Prema-pradipa, p. 83)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us "free will" if He knew we could miss use it and fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Loving relationships and expressions of service are always a "two-way street" based on reciprocation and loving exchanges between two.

A loving relationship can never be a domineering one-sided relationship or dictatorship because that will only destroy the one's free will to voluntary express one's self in a meaningful "two-way' exchange.

The independence to express one's self is unique to each individual jiva-soul's character.

In Bhagavad Gita As It Is Krsna makes the promise that once returning to Vaikuntha, the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation however, the jiva-souls also have their choice too, and therefore can accept or reject Krsna's promise if they choose, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will Prabhupada has explained.

Although, as said above, over 90% of jiva-souls do choose to not fall down, but even then they can leave at anytime if they choose, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.

Srila Prabhupada explains above, at one time only that less than 10% of jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana can choose to leave and enter the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada has made it clear that if we do not have free will in both Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana to leave at anytime we choose, then we are no better than dead lifeless stone.

In other words, there must also be the free will to reject Krsna too otherwise loving voluntary exchanges with Krsna can never freely exist.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will, he misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (From Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada and Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one-way only, that is not independence that is force." (LA, California June 23, 1975)

Denying the jiva-souls their natural eternal constitutional right of self-expression and free will (freedom) is impersonalism.

If Krsna did force His will and forced the jiva-souls to love Him, then how can that be real genuine love as Prabhupada explains?

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is a reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Krsna does promise in Bhagavad Gita that the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation once returning to Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

But Krsna always allows the jiva-souls their right to accept or reject that promise too.

Even with Krsna's promise there MUST be a choice otherwise by forcing the jiva-souls to remain in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, can be seen as interfering with the free will, independence and individual choices of the jiva-souls.

This is because the jiva-souls are entitled to making their own decisions too without being dictated too even by Krsna, otherwise what is the point of having free will?

The fact is Krsna will never make that decision for the jiva-souls; they must voluntarily choose for themselves; otherwise their free will is violated.

There can be no question of love if the jiva-souls have no right to choose for themselves.

Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison some end up back there?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no such thing as permanent because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this; you can do that. All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence; therefore, there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall again if he wants; that choice is always there. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean it is permanent because he can again come back however, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of having independence and free will? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally, he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara and Henri Bergson)

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.

That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.

If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

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In 1978 I met two gurus from another Vaisnava group in India, but they could not understand the concept of free will being the cause of one's fall down to the material creation and not Maya or material energy.

The fact is, Maya or material energy simply does not exist in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana but free will with the individual jiva-souls always exists there.

The understanding from those other Vaisnava group was total nonsense, they seemed to believe that once the jiva-souls enter Vaikuntha, they no longer have free will because Krsna controls them completely.

In actual fact, that idea is impersonalism, and that is why Srila Prabhupada told us to avoid them all.

Krsna's promise in the Bhagavad Gita is that the jiva-souls will never fall down from the spiritual world; however, do the jiva-souls have a say in this, too? Prabhupada explains below.

Krsna's promise in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, is that the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation; once they have returned back home, back to Godhead.

So do the jiva-souls have to accept that promise from Krsna as final, or can they leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana anytime they choose?

In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Krsna promises the jiva-souls they will never again fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and enter the material creation, and yes, Krsna will always keep His promise!

However, Krsna's promise of the jiva-souls never again falling down to the material creation once in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana is from Krsna' point of view.

So, do the jiva-souls also have a choice to accept Krsna's promise, or can they reject it if they choose?

In other words, does this mean the jiva-souls have no choice and can never choose to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, even if they want to leave?

Krsna's promise, confirmed by many past Acharays who agree that once the jiva-souls reach Vaikuntha, never again fall down to the material world, is true for most souls, but not all of them, less than 10% again do fall down again Prabhupada has explained.

Those who always quote Krsna's promise from Bhagavad Gita are right for the majority of jiva-souls, which is about 90% in Vaikuntha, and Goloka Vrindavana because they choose to never fall down again or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana to enter the material creation.

But not all souls think that way; less than 10% do reject Krsna's promise.

This is because each jiva-soul has their own free will of independent thinking; this means it is their choice to stay or leave and not just Krsnas.

Otherwise, there is no meaning to free will.

This means Krsna's promise is not the final say or absolute law with all jiva-souls because they all have free will to make their choice, too.

Srila Prabhupada explains Krsna's promise and gives the proper explanation in full, saying a small minority of jiva-souls do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and puts that figure at less than 10%.

So why do some jiva-souls fall down?

To understand this, one must realize that, ultimately, love is not just a one-way street or a dictatorship of just obeying without voluntary personal contributions.

Real love and service are based on reciprocation and loving exchanges between two, not just one, meaning not just only Krsna.

Therefore, we must not forget that the jiva-souls also have their right of self-expression too, which means they have their individual choices of how they want to uniquely contribute to their relationship with Krsna, expressed from their point of view.

This is because love is always based on reciprocation, on a two-way street between two, and not just one or dominated by only Krsna, no, Krsna never demands that type of impersonal surrender from His devotees, where one just obeys with personal contributions to the relationship with Krsna.

Only impersonalists preach that surrender means giving up free will, individuality, and extinguishing your unique personality, and that everyone should become little Krsna imitaters or mindless drones.

It is a fact Krsna can do anything He wants to do however, if Krsna forced His will and complete dominance on the individual jiva-souls, then how can the jiva-souls express themselves as independent person's who offer their own contributions to Krsna?

With such freedom, the jiva-souls are no better than dead stone Prabhupada tells us.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. Do you want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Such one-way control by this kind of God will only destroy the jiva-soul's independent ability of voluntary self-expression and unique individuality.

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Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada, why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, you are a stone. Do you want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Free will is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the spiritual world as ignorant fools believe, free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and therefore always exists without beginning or end on the spiritual planets.

However, free will, in its full potential, is only fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, which is the jiva-souls original perpetual home from where they originated from.

Ultimately in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, it is also the jiva's choice of how to serve and not just Krsna's because He wants loving servants who choose to be with Him through their own free will and personal offerings, to serve and love Him voluntarily.

Not forced to serve Him by saying once you are in Goloka Vrindavana, never again will you fall down.

No, that is not Krsna's call, it is not His choice alone, it is also the jiva-soul's choice to remain there as a servant of the servant as weĺl, or even leave if they choose to.

The relationship between servant and Master is never one-way; it is a perpetual relationship based on reciprocation and loving exchanges between two.

The promise by Krsna that the jiva-souls will never again fall down into the material world, is from His point of view as explained above however, the jiva-souls can reject His offer if they choose, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.

Ultimately, it is not only Krsna's will and complete control that determines loving exchanges; no, it is a joint participation between the jiva-souls and Krsna.

The spiritual worlds are not dictatorships where one is a yes man or women who are denied and personal contributions or offerings.

Over 90% of jiva-souls do choose to accept Krsna's promise and never again leave the spiritual worlds, but even that can change because free will is eternal.

The fact is, there are no guarantees that the jiva-souls will never fall down to the material creation.

As said above, only less than 10% do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, and that is their right.

Srila Prabhupada - "Independence means you can do this, you can do that, all right, whatever you like; otherwise, there is no meaning of independence." (Discussions with Syamasundara and Henri Bergson)

Sadly, many can not understand these words from Srila Prabhupada and still foolishly claim that once they reach the spiritual world, they never again fall down because Krsna will not allow them to fall down.

If true, then that means Krsna takes away the jiva-soul's free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, which is simply not true.

The reason why is because all each jiva-soul is an independent individual person with 78.125% of Krsna's qualities and have their own personality separate from Krsna's Personality. This means having their own unique independent identity.

Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal offerings based on free will and voluntary selfless reciprocation with Krsna, it is never a one-sided relationship with the Krsna.

Real love, bhakti or devotional service is reciprocal, as said above, it is never a one-way street where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, individuality, and personal contributions.

This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that they only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique person they are eternally.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God, you have got independence, full independence; therefore, you have acquired the quality of your father. So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Acyutananda – "In the Bhagavat Gita it says, 'Once the jiva-soul enters to the spiritual world, he never again returns to the material creation', but you say he can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes, he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence; you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

Free will for the jiva-souls is eternal in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan and without this freedom of choosing to either serve Krsna, or forget Krsna, then there is no question of have freedom (free will) in the spiritual worlds.

Without free will, the jiva-souls would have no individuality, no sense of self, no independent personality, and no ability to love. The jiva-souls would simply be no better than dead stone Prabhupada has said above.

Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity and Krsna, the jiva-souls must have the right to even choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime if they want, therefore returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here-

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence; therefore, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, you have independence, proportionately; therefore, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, with little independence. We can misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

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Originally, all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) because their original home is Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.

Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even when they choose to reject Him.

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities, nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha because of the spiritual world and material worlds. However, the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, the jiva-soul can become again nitya-siddha. So, the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Nitya-siddha is when the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are p ĺ in their natural pure spiritual bodily state, eternally liberated in Goloka Vrndavana or Vaikuntha with Krsna or Visnu.

The nitya-baddha condition is when the jiva-souls are in an unnatural impure state of reality eternally conditioned in the material creation selfishly serving one's own interests unaware of their permanently original position of being nitya-siddha.

This means all the living entities in the category of marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are originally nitya-siddha and fully Krsna conscious.

Nitya-siddha means fully Krsna conscious in one's original position as Krsna's eternal servant.

The jiva-souls can never become God (Visnu-tattva).

The marginal living entity (jiva-souls) can choose to be either nitya-siddha, that means eternally liberated, or nitya-baddha, which means eternally conditioned.

Although the nature of the jiva-soul's constitution can change from being eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) to eternally liberated (nitya siddha)

Originally all jiva-souls are nitya-siddha, there is no such thing of one class of marginal living entities (jiva-souls) being only nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha, no, originally all jiva-souls are nitya-siddha.

The nitya siddha spiritual bodily form in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha is the original position and home of the marginal living entities within the eternal presence of Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha.

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is "free will." Unless there is a chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is "free will" then? If I act only one-sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing; it is bad, but still, he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise, what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, it is a difficult task." (London lecture on BG Ch 13, 14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are three kinds of liberated persons; they are called-

1) sadhan siddha,

2) kripa siddha,

3) nitya siddha.

When one is actually on the siddha platform, there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha.

When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic ocean, nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who is in this material world they are nitya-baddha." (Lecture Ch 13 text 14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha-the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water, you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But, we have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation. Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: ‘All right. Imitate’. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually, we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. . . we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated."(SB lecture in Tokyo, April 20, 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - "Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history, many, many, many Brahma’s lives are happening, not only one." (Lecture in NY City, Jan 9, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "There is history, but that is not possible to trace out. Therefore, it is said anadi . . . Anadi means the creation. Creation before creation I contaminated this desire." (SB lecture in Bombay, January 1, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "It is impossible to trace out our history. Vaisnava poets say, therefore, anadi karma-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahma’s birth to the next millenium." (SB Canto 3, Ch 31 text 44, Aug 1974).

Devotee - "In the spiritual sky, when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point, also?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense, there is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." (BG, lecture of July 4, 1974)

It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna, Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however, free will does exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - "The next question about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness; he does not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness, immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to, Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna Happening record album New York December 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly, we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore, many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming ftom there, he never returns to the material creation."

Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - ''He can return?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Morning Walk, February 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls. This adds flavour, variety and mystery to their association with the Lord.

This means the Kingdom of God (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha) are not a one-sided dominating impersonal domain devoid of free will or voluntary service.

Denying free will does not allow or encourage voluntary personal contributions (offerings) expressed in a two-way exchange, that can only expand, enrich and flavour one's eternal relationship with Krsna (God).

Loving service to Krsna and exchanges with Him cannot exist if there is only a one-sided affiliate of total supremacy or preeminence.

The fact is genuine loving relations and service are based on free will which includes loving exhanges between two, and is never a one-sided dominating affair!

Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can express themselves in a two-sided relationship with Krsna or even reject Him if they choose.

Unless the jiva-souls can make their own choice to do these things, then there is no question of having free will.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.

Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”

Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.

That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.

Lord Balarama expands as Maha-Visnu.

Srila Prabhupada - "Balarāma, the first expansion of Kṛṣṇa, expands Himself in five forms:

(1) Mahā-saṅkarṣaṇa,

(2) Kāraṇodakaśāyī,

(3) Garbhodakaśāyī,

(4) Kṣīrodakaśāyī,

(5) Śeṣa.

These five plenary portions are responsible for both the spiritual and material cosmic manifestations.

In these five forms, Lord Balarāma assists Lord Kṛṣṇa in His activities.

The first four of these forms are responsible for the cosmic manifestations, whereas Śeṣa is responsible for personal service to the Lord.

Śeṣa is called Ananta, or unlimited, because He assists the Personality of Godhead in His unlimited expansions by performing an unlimited variety of services.

Śrī Balarāma is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Kṛṣṇa in all affairs of existence and knowledge.

Lord Nityānanda Prabhu, who is the same servitor Godhead, Balarāma, performs the same service to Lord Gaurāṅga by constant association." (CC Adi 5.10, Translation and Purport).

Krsna, as His original two armed Form, never leaves Goloka Vrindavana.

The Krsna that does come to the material universe is actually a Visnu-tattva expansion from the original two armed Krsna, who plays the part of the original childhood Krsna and enters the material creation.

Only in the facsimile version of the original Vrndavana does Visnu, as the form of Krsna, kills demons.

In Goloka-Vrindavana with the original Krsna, there are no demons, not even rumours of demons, because Vaikuntha means one is free from all anxiety.

Only in the material creation do demons exist who are killed not by Krsna directly, but by His Visnu-tattva expansion playing the part of the original Krsna in the material creation.

Krsna is the original source of all Narayana or Visnu forms, who are all His expansions residing in the quadrillions of Vaikuntha Planets that surround His central abode of Goloka Vrindavana.

Krsna further expands via His first Visnu-tattva expansion, Balarama, as eventually Maha-Visnu (Karanodakshayi Visnu), who creates and manages the unlimited material universes called Brahmandas.

As said above, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, who resides in His personal abode of Goloka-Vrindavan and never leaves.

However, Krsna is also the original source of all Narayana or Visnu forms of God, who are all His expansions that reside in the quadrillions of Vaikuntha Planets that surround His central abode of Goloka Vrindavana.

In actual fact, the Krsna who comes to the material creation is a Visnu-tattva form of the Lord expanding from the original Krsna in Goloka-Vrndavana.

The Visnu-tattva expansion from Krsna is a facsimile of the original 2 armed Krsna. He then enters the material creation, playing the part of the original Krsna in Goloka-Vrndavana.

In other words, the Krsna who enters the material manifestation is really a Visnu-tattva 4 armed form.

This Visnu-tattva expansion of Krsna comes to the material creation and plays the role of the original two armed Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because Kṛṣṇa never leaves Vṛndāvana, all the forms of Kṛṣṇa that appear elsewhere are His expansions." (BG As It Is Ch 10 Text 37)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The original Lord Kṛṣṇa never leaves Goloka Vṛndāvana. All the plenary expansions are one and the same Viṣṇu-tattva, and there is no difference in Their potency." (Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter 1 Text 34)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The biggest and highest planet in the brahmajyoti is Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka Vṛndāvana, where the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, resides. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa NEVER leaves Kṛṣṇaloka." (Sri Isopanisad 12)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Baladeva (Balarama) is Kṛṣṇa's immediate expansion. Both Lord Kṛṣṇa and Baladeva appeared as sons of Vasudeva, so both of Them may be called Vāsudeva. From another point of view, because Kṛṣṇa NEVER leaves Vṛndāvana, all the forms of Kṛṣṇa that appear elsewhere are His expansions." (Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 10 Text 37)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Ādi caturbhuja, the original expansions from Baladeva (Balarama) are Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. All of Them are Viṣṇu-tattvas, or nondifferent Personalities of Godhead.

In the incarnation of Śrī Rāma, all these different expansions appeared for particular pastimes. Lord Rāma is the original Vāsudeva, and His brothers were Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha.

Aniruddha is also the cause of Mahā-Viṣṇu, from whose breathing the Ṛg Veda appeared. All this is nicely explained in the Mārkaṇḍeya Purāṇa.

In the incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Aniruddha appeared as the son of the Lord. The original Lord Kṛṣṇa never leaves Goloka Vṛndāvana. All the plenary expansions are one and the same Viṣṇu-tattva, and there is no difference in Their potency." (Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 10 Text 37)

From the original Krsna, who is always in Goloka Vrindavana and never leaves for the material creation, Krsna there expands as His Visnu-tattva expansion when he enters the Vaikuntha Planets and wants to enter the material creation.

Krsna expands from Visnu-tattva and then enters the material creation via His first Visnu-tattva expansion, Balarama, who is Maha Visnu (Karanodakshayi Visnu)

Maha-Visnu creates and manages the unlimited material universes called Brahmandas.

These unlimited number of Brahmandas, coming from the Body of Maha-Visnu's pores and breathing, are massive individual material universes made up of material qualities (both subtle material energy and gross material elements), and all Brahmandas have a secondary material inner universe deep within each Brahmanda.

Each massive Brahmanda material universe covers, encases, and surrounds an inner smaller secondary material universe deep inside with 7 or 8 outer layers of material qualities that make up the Brahmanda.

Maha-Visnu expands again as Garbhodakashayi Visnu, who creates this secondary material universe deep inside of the Brahmanda.

Then from Garbhodakashayi Visnu, Brahma manifests who creates the different planetary systems within each inner material universe that spread out as a flat looking disc made up of many spherical planets that spread out as individual global planets to nearly the edge of this inner single material universe, as explained in Srimad Bhagavatam.

Because of the massive solid material elements of the Brahmanda, no one inside the inner material universe can see outside of their own inner universe. Srimad Bhagavatam explains.

This means from within our small material universe inside our Brahmanda, we cannot see the billions of other Brahmanda's around it.

Srila Prabhupāda - "Each material universe (inside their Brahmanda) is covered by various layers of material elements, and therefore, although the universes. (Brahmandas) are clustered together; we cannot see from one universe to another. In other words, whatever we see is within this one universe." (Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 21 Text 11, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are innumerable universes, and each universe contains one Brahmā, one Śiva, one sun, one moon, one Indra, like that, officers just like. So there are innumerable universes, so innumerable Brahmā, innumerable Rudra, innumerable suns, innumerable moons, everything innumerable. But each brahmāṇḍa contains one each. So, how does it happen? It is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Lord Caitanya is reciting that story.

eka dina dvārakāte kṛṣṇa dekhibāre brahmā āilā—dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere

One day, when Kṛṣṇa was king at Dvārakā, with sixteen thousand queens, so one day Brahmā of this universe came to see Him. Brahmā āilā—dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere. And as... The same etiquette was there also. This is also coming by paramparā." (Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 21.49-61 -- New York, January 5, 1967)

Girirāja - "Right now Kṛṣṇa is in so many different universes."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Girirāja - "And He is having the same pastimes."

Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Girirāja - "And in each universe, there is an Arjuna."

Srila Prabhupada - "Everything."

Girirāja - "Everything. So is it the same living soul, Arjuna, in each universe, or a different living being may be taking that position?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Take it for granted, different. What is wrong there? After all, everyone is Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Ānanda cinmāyā-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). We are also expansion. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But still, we have got individuality. Kṛṣṇa proved it—I explained that in Vṛndāvana when everything was stolen by Brahmā. Again, another batch of cows and calves and cowherds boys. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. What is the difficulty for Kṛṣṇa? Is it clear or not? You wanted to clarify. Is it clear or not?" (Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay)

In other words because we are all expansions of Krsna it is not important to know if in each universe it is the same Arjuna or a different one.

Deep inside, each Brahmanda, each of their Brahmas create the different planetary systems.

Our universe inside our Brahmanda, Brahma, builds 14 planetary systems.

Each inner material universe within their Brahmanda has a different number of Planetary Systems according to their size.

Karanodakshayi Vishnu (Maha-Visnu) is actually sleeping and is always dreaming the activities within each of the secondary material universes deep within the unlimited number of Brahmandas.

Those dreams Maha-Visnu have are all the activities happening within each of the Garbhodakashayi Visnu's secondary universes.

In painting below, Karanodakshayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) is seen laying down sleeping, and Garbhodakashayi Visnu is seen within each Brahmanda.

When Maha-Visnu dreams, He first creates the entire material universe known as the Maha-tattva (matter), which takes up 25% of the spiritual sky or Brahmajyoti.

The other 75% is the active personal spiritual world (anti-matter) that is ever fresh, always youthful and never ending, known as the perpetual Vaikuntha Planets of Visnu and Krsna's central abode of Goloka-Vrindavan.

Within Maha-Visnu's 25% of the spiritual sky called the temporary material creation, we find it is always in a state of decay, decline, and impermanence.

It is where jiva-souls who have chosen to enter the material creation, are forced into repeated birth and death because of the temporary nature of the material creation, forced to possess (or take) temporary material bodily vessels or containers.

The visiting jiva-souls in the material creation are forced to take repeated births again and again because the material bodies they are in eventually wear out, get old, break down, and cease to operate.

To make it clear,

1 - Within this temporary material creation, we find unlimited individual massive single Brahmanda universes coming from the Body of Maha-Visnu.

2 - And deep inside each of those massive Brahmanda universes, there is a secondary smaller universe where Maha-Visnu expands Himself as Garbhodakashayi Visnu.

3 - And from Garbhodakashayi Visnu, Lord Brahma appears from His naval at the top of a lotus flower.

4 - Then Lord Brahma builds the many planetary systems inside each of the inner secondary universes deep inside their individual Brahmanda.

There is only one Maha-Visnu in the material creation yet an unlimited number of Garbhodakashayi Visnus and Lord Brahmas.

Also, it is important to understand the amount of planetary systems deep inside each Brahmanda, vary in size, some larger, and some smaller than others.

Our material universe within our Brahmanda has 14 Planetary Systems and is considered a small universe explained in Bhagavatam as 4 billion miles in diameter.

Some Vedic cosmologists think this figure of 4 billion miles in diameter describing our material universe inside our Brahmanda is too small of a figure for the real size of our small material universe.

Some Vedic scholars suggest the figure of 4 billion miles or 500,000,000 yojanas, as decribed in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, is really a code that needs decoding because they claim just our Solar System is said to be 24 billion miles in diameter.

Another answer is that measurement can be different on the different planetary systems, just like the fabric of space-time measurement is also different on all planetary systems.

For example, 100 years on the Brahmaloka planet on the highest planetary system is 311 trillion and 40 billion human years long.

So, there may be far more to this figure claiming our material universe is just 4 billion miles in diameter.

Other universes inside their Brahmanda have many more planetary systems than just 14 and are therefore much bigger than 4 billion miles in diameter.

The fact is, the size of each Brahmanda and their inner universe depends on how many heads Lord Brahma has.

Some Lord Brahmas, like ours, has only 4 heads, while other Brahma's within their universe inside their Brahmanda, may have 10, 20, 50, 500, 1000, 100,000 or even a million or more heads.

In this way, all the quadrillions of Brahmanda universes coming from the Body of the sleeping Maha-Visnu (as seen in painting below) all have a secondary inner universe deep inside it also seen in painting.

Each massive Brahmanda universe has 7 or 8 material coverings or layers that surround and encase each of the inner secondary material universe.

This means the massive Brahmanda surrounding its inner secondary universe within is 44 quadrillion 444 trillion 444 billion miles in diameter or bigger.

The full size of the Brahmanda, if that measurement above is from the outer edge of the inner secondary universe, is actually twice that size.

The sleeping Maha-Visnu (Karanadakashayi Visnu) expands Himself into the inner secondary universe deep inside each Brahmanda as Garbhodakashayi Visnu.

This secondary material universe is in the centre of each massive Brahmanda universe.

In the Bhagavatam, Bhu-Mandala is the earth mandala (not to be confused with our small earth globe); it is a disk 500 million yojanas in diameter (4 billion miles in diameter)

One yojanas is equal to 8 miles in diameter.

The word Earth has many explanations.

For example, our small Earth global round sphere is only 24.901 miles in circumference and is 7.917.5 miles in diameter; it is not Bhu-Mandala.

Bhu-Mandala is 500 million yojanas in diameter (4 billion miles in diameter or 12.6 billion miles in circumference).

A yojana is a unit of distance about 8 miles long, and so the diameter of Bhu-Mandala is about 4 billion miles, which is the size of our single material universe within our Brahmanda.

Our Earth is not flat! It is a round global sphere.

Srila Prabhupada - "On the ground, our earth looks flat, but when you go up, you will see our Earth planet is a ball." (Lecture New York 1966)

The Sanskrit word Dvīpa has two meanings.

1 - Islands or continents on a planet.

2 - Globes or spheres in outer space.

Bhu-Mandala is marked by circular features designated as islands (Dvipas that can also mean planets) and oceans.

Srila Prabhupada -"The planets are called dvīpas. Outer space is like an ocean of air. Just as there are islands in the watery ocean, these planets in the ocean of space are called dvīpas, or islands in outer space." (Caitanya Caritamrita Madhya 20.218, Purport)

Therefore, Bhu-Mandala is far too big to be our small earth globe but does describe our small single universe with its 14 planetary systems deep within our surrounding Brahmanda.

Therefore, the 14 planetary systems deep within our surrounding Brahmanda would fit in the circumference of Bhu-Mandala (4 billion miles (500,000,000 Yojanas) diameter)

The jiva-soul can stay for an almost eternity in the temporary decaying material universes cycles of annihilation and creation if they choose.

When Lord Brahma dies after 100 of his years (311 trillion and 40 billion human years), there is an equal period of his life span of 311 trillion, 40 billion human years where nothing living exists, everything in the material universe remains dormant for that enormous amount of time in the Body of Maha-Visnu.

Then, the next material creation of Brahmanda's manifest from Maha-Visnu (Karanadakashayi Visnu)

All jiva-souls have merged as individual units into the Body of Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) and remain that way until the next creation of Brahmandas when they again manifest from Maha-Visnu's Spiritual Body as seen in painting below.

In other words, in the next new creation of Brahmandas coming from the Body of Maha-Visnu, all the dormant jiva-souls awaken and continue on again within a secondary universe that is deep inside each Brahmanda outer universe, from where they left off in the previous inner material universe.

As explained, a secondary smaller universe is deep within each of the massive surrounding Brahmanda universes.

Our Brahma lives for 311 trillion and 40 billion human years (100-year life span of Lord Brahma)

It is important to understand at the annihilation of each Brahmanda universe and its inner secondary universe, Garbhodakashayi Visnu temporarily merges back to be one with Maha-Visnu until the next Brahmanda universes are manifest from the breathing and pores of Maha-Visnu.

Then the process repeats itself, the sleeping Maha-Visnu (Karanadakashayi Visnu) expands Himself into the inner secondary universe that is deep inside each Brahmanda as Garbhodakashayi Visnu that is in the centre of each Brahmanda universe.

The jiva-souls are suspended in inactivity (dormant) within the Body of Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) for 311 trillion 40 billion human years.

The jiva-souls re-emerge and continue on (their karma) from where they left off in the previous creation.**..