2024, the year NASA has announced they are heading back to the Moon, how will ISKCON leaders deal with this?

Also Russia and China have announced a joint adventure to build a settlement on the Moon by 2030.

And India and the European Union are also planning to send manned missions to the Moon.

Frankly it is foolish for ISKCON to keep denying the achievements of the 1969/72 NASA Moon landings.

If ISKCON continues these silly Moon hoax claims, "The Temple of Vedic Planetarium" project in Mayapur WILL be the butt of jokes around the World.

Already making new devotees in Western Nations have been way, way down over the last 30 years, less than 20 Brahmacaris (students) in Melbourne Temple as at the beginning of 2022, there were more living in the Temple in the mid 1970s!

Only in India and the old Soviet Union has ISKCON grown.

However, the silly past ISKCON claims that the Moon landings were a hoax found on the Internet sites, does not help, devotees look ignorant, misinformed and foolish fundamentalist fanatics!

Many over the years have left ISKCON because of many laughable recorded silly 50 year old conversations that claim the Moon landings were a hoax and Moon rocks came from the Arizona desert.

But blinded by sentimental love, immature devotees accept this nonsense.

I have tried to explain these facts respectfully because the majority of Prabhupada's AMAZING eye opening teachings are fool-proof, and only His views on Cosmology is questionable, that he himself admitted, he did not know everything about.

Maybe humbly this is how ISKCON should explain the Moon controversy-

It could be explained there are "two Moons" in the same space, 

1 - One realm we see in our gross material body, 

2 - The other we do not see because it is subtle material energy.

This conclusion is reached because the Moon has two realities -

1 - Subtle material reality.

2 - Gross matter material reality.

We in a gross material body cannot see or experience the "subtle matter reality" but we CAN see and experience the "gross matter reality".

This also answers how man could go to the Moon.

Lets look at the facts in 2022 about these old 1970s Moon landing conspiracy theories claiming, even by Srila Prabhupada, the Moon landings never happened however, he really meant they could never go to the "subtle reality" of the Moon, a heavenly material realm called Chandraloka.

As far as the "gross moon" landings are concerned, over 450,000 people worked on the Apollo missions that eventually took man to the Moon in the late 1960s, to keep a secret like this among all these people, believing it was all some clever hoax is impossible.

And today in 2022 many Countries are continuously sending space crafts and probes to the Moon.

Therefore it is not only NASA anymore, it is China, India, Japan, Russia, Israel, European Union.

To claim they are all in on some hoax and conspiracy is ridiculous, the manned Moon landings between 1969 and 1972 DID happen without any doubt, the evidence is overwhelming!

And if Srila Prabhupada's opinion does NOT convience me the Moon manned landings never happened and was "all bluff", then no one else has any chance of convincing me we never went to the "gross Moon".

Where Srila Prabhupada is right is the Astronauts and their space crafts can NEVER enter or percieve the heavenly atmosphere on the Moon 

Srila Prabhupada always maintained they never went to the Moon but I believe he really meant the "subtle reality of the Moon".

This technically means there are really "two Moons" not considered by the devotees back in the early 1970s.

The Moon landings therefore were NOT a hoax or some silly Government conspiracy that only 3% of Americans believe in 2022.

And Prabhupada's reasons they never went to the Moon are different from those mundane Conspiracy theories mentioned above.

That is because he knows there is a higher material heavenly reality on the Moon that we in gross material bodies cannot visit or even perceive.

But the Astronauts DID go to the gross reality of the Moon.

What we see in the sky and what the Astronauts visited was the "gross Moon" NOT the "subtle Moon" that is not seen.

If we see the Moon from earth then that must be the "gross reality Moon" otherwise we would not be able to see it.

Since 1969, as far as the gross Moon is concerned, many have said they never went to the Moon.

This was also because very little of this new technology was understood back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, even by Prabhupada, and especially by his very young disciples, some with university degrees, all in there early 20s back then, never fully understood it either.

Today in 2022 it is nonsense to continue these mundane conspiracy theories that they never went to the Moon (the gross Moon) such conspiracy theorists never even considered what Prabhupada said all along. And that is the Moon has an unseen heavenly higher dimension to (a subtle reality)

As said above, Srila Prabhupada emphasis they NEVER went to the "subtle heavenly realm on the Moon" called Chandraloka, and he is right!

But they DID go to the same gross Moon we see at night.

It seems Prabhupada back then did not discuss this aspect back in the 1970s of two Moon realities (gross and subtle) that make the Moon landings possible.

This means the Moon is both "subtle and gross" matter, making it two Moons in different realities at the same time in the same space. 

We cannot see the "subtle matter" but we CAN see the "gross matter".

After all we all see the Moon at night from Earth which is the gross reality of the Moon.

Back in 1969 they did not understand any of this, it is even fair to say Srila Prabhupada himself seemed to also be trying to understand Vedic Cosmology with his disciples and suggested we need someone qualified in Vedic Cosmology to teach us.

Srila Prabhupada had said he did not know everything about Vedic Cosmology and therefore sent Tamal Krsna Maharaj to Southern India in search of an advanced Brahmana who could teach us the science of Vedic Cosmology and how to properly understand it.

Discussion with that Southern Brahmin is found here-

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1389738784594714?view=permalink&id=1895632647338656

The fact is they DID go to the Moon but was only to "the gross Moon" did they see and experienced that we also see from earth.

They could not see or enter the "subtle material heavenly atmosphere of Chandraloka" also being Moon.

To be clear, they NEVER went to the "subtle heavenly realm on the Moon called Chandraloka" that we also cannot see, detect or visit in these gross material bodies.

However the Astronauts DID go to the same Moon we see at night but was the "gross Moon" they visited.

This means the Moon we see from Earth MUST be the gross aspect of the Moon otherwise we would not be able to see the Moon at night or day.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never lose their voluntary self expression of free will in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

Srila Prabhupada - "Surrender BY your intelligence, but don't surrender your intelligence."(Letter to Bali Mardan 1974)

This means the individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world always voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way with offerings of personal contributions they offer to Krsna.

Free will can NEVER be "surrendered" because our choices define who we individually are as a contributing devotee of Kṛṣṇa.  

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will, you want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become a flower, voluntarily, and one can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

In the spiritual world all relationships with Krsna are equally blissful to each other, just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have independence, you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that "I must enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position, if you persist, God sanctions. And you can come here and enjoy." (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

The individual jiva-souls are independent living entities in the spiritual worlds and have their own unique personality and sense of self that is separate from Krsna's Personality, yet are simultaneously dependent on Krsna as His parts and parcels.

The reason why Krsna gives the jiva-souls their independence and free will is so they can choose for themselves how to serve Him in their own unique personal way, or even reject Him if they choose.

This also means the jiva-souls can always contribute their own unique offerings out of unconditional personal love, without the need of any pressure or force from Krsna.

Real love or service can only exist when free will allows the jiva-souls to voluntarily participate in loving devotional exchanges and contribute to the relationship with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you also give. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only by one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then there is love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Surrender to Krsna in the spiritual world does not mean giving up your free will and allowing Krsna to control all your every actions, deeds, words and thoughts.

No, the jiva-souls in the spiritual world are not programmed mindless drones who only obey and never contribute to the relationship with Krsna in their own unique way by thinking for themselves.

The jiva-souls can never lose their free will in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, or the individual ability of self-expression of offering their own personal contributions to Krsna that are unique to each individual jiva-soul.

Only by having free will can genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation take place, and without free will the jiva-souls are no better than dead stone Prabhupada has warned us.

Furthermore, Krsna never interferes with the free will of the jiva-souls because if He did and never allowed them to have the freedom to make their own choices in the spiritual world, then that means loving exchanges and voluntarily reciprocation with Krsna can never exist.

If one is forced to worship Krsna or Visnu then that is not love, it is slavery which is impersonalism.

The impersonal version of God's Kingdom of Goloka-Vrindavana or the Vaikuntha Planets, where the jiva-souls are forced to surrender their free will and only do what they are told to do, allowing their bogus God (Krsna) to take over their every actions, thoughts and deeds, is spiritual suicide that makes the jiva-souls no better than dead stone as Prabhupada explains.

Having genuine free will on the other hand, allows the jiva-souls to be themselves, which means being an independent unique contributing servant of Krsna, who always voluntarily chooses what to offer to Krsna and how they want to serve Krsna.

Voluntary service is the bases of real surrender in Goloka Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets (the spiritual worlds) which are the permanent eternal home and origin of all the marginal living entities (jiva-souls).

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding the expression of their unique individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will, it is never a nonsense one-sided master/slave relationship with Krsna as Prabhupada explains.

Krsna does not control the surrendered jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings, denying self-expression, individual contributions and voluntary service.

However, Krsna does control His pure devotees with love (His service to them) because the jiva-souls allows this deep reciprocation out of their unconditional love for Him (always wanting to serve Krsna and be with Him)

Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna does not want to become a lover by force, from the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; no, that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual jiva-souls we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere.

When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

This transcendental vibration of chanting-

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

This is the sublime method for reviving our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. 

As living spiritual souls we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere.

In this polluted concept of live, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities.

This illusion is called māyā, or hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age. 

By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this mahā-mantra, or the great chanting for deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum.

When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane.

This chanting of-

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness namely sensual, mental and intellectual.

There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this mahā-mantra.

It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically. 

Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it.

The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved.

As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect.

The word Harā is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Kṛṣṇa and Rāma are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mean the highest pleasure, eternal. Harā is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord.

This potency, when addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord.

The material energy, called mayā, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we are also the marginal potency of the Lord.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are described as a superior energy than matter. 

When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation.

But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

The three words, namely Harā, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, are transcendental seeds of the mahā-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Harā, for giving protection to the conditioned soul.

The chanting is exactly like a genuine cry by the child for the mother. Mother Harā helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father, Hari, or Kṛṣṇa, and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee. 

No other means, therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the mahā-mantra." (Purport to Hare Krsna Mantra, the cover of the "Happening Record Album" recorded Dec 1966 New York City, USA)

Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving."

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."

Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go." All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done? So because you are son of God you have acquired the quality of your father so God does not interfere with your independence (free will)." (Lecture Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974).

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will if I can act only one sided? That means I have no free will. Because we CAN act wrongly (sometimes), that means we have free will." (Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes).

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never lose their free will because they are eternal as Bhagavad Gita explains-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 Text 12 and 20 confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created and have no origin or end.

The stage for the jiva-souls is infinity, meaning there is no birth for the jiva-souls or no death.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is "1983 corrected edition", Chapter 2 text 20-

"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)

And in Bhagavad-gītā As It  Is (2.12)- 

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG 2.12)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Free will has nothing to do with the material body, free will is a symptom of the eternal jiva-soul.

Free will is the constitutional makeup of the pure jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana where nothing material exists, including decaying material bodily vessels.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. Man is made after the shape of God. I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even when they choose to reject Him.

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Free will can NEVER be "surrendered" because our choices define who we individually are as a contributing devotee of Kṛṣṇa.  

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will, you want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG As It Is, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna.

Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however,  free will DOES always exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Happening record album New York Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna? I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG, As It Is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana) When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming from the material temporary world to the spiritual world, he never returns to the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - "He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk, Feb 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)*^^*

Is everything the "will" of Krsna?

In one sense, not always because the jiva-souls have their independence.

However, ultimately EVERYTHING is the "will of Krsna", as Bhagavad Gita says- 

"Not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Lord". 

Even having free will is only possible if Krsna allows it. This is because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Krsna always allows "free will" because it allows voluntary contributions, self expression and a "two-way" relationship.

Therefore having "free will" is also the eternal constitutional make up of EVERY "marginal living entity", and is the foundation for ALL jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna that allows unique individual offering and exchanges.

Srila Prabhupāda – ''Love means a relationship between "two persons", then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there". (August 9, 1976, Tehran)

The Sun-disc and the sun-rays CANNOT exist separately from each other, similarly Krsna cannot exist separately from His living entities (parts and parcels) and the living entities CANNOT exist without Krsna.

Each "jiva-soul" (marginal living entity) is a one of a kind independent individual with their own unique personality and character different from other personalities including Kṛṣṇas.

No two individual jiva-souls are the same, and no jiva-souls can EVER become God (Krsna or Visnu).

Loving devotional service to Krsna is ALWAYS based on a "two-way" voluntary exchange of personal feelings manifesting as loving acts of reciprocation between Kṛṣṇa and His devotees, who voluntarily contribute their own unique expressions (offerings) of devotional service to Him as the real act of surrendering to Krsna's will that does not deny the "free will" of each jiva-soul.

Actions expressed in a "one-way" domineering forceful mood from a "so called God" in His Kingdom that does not allow personal voluntary contributions from the individual jiva-souls in a "two-way" exchange of feelings, is dangerous impersonalism.

Personalism means a "two-way" relationship that includes voluntary loving exchange of feelings that expands, enriches and multiplies loving affection, sentiment and exchanges between the jiva-souls and Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation. (Lecture on BG Chapter 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed by only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love''. (SB Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (SB Canto 2 Chapter 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will." (Philosophy Discussions with Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force.” (Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - “Service in the spiritual world is always voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

The decaying material bodily vessel is NOT a person, it is matter that covers the PERSON (jiva-soul) within. This means the REAL individual person's eternal spiritual identity is INSIDE the temporary material body.

When death comes, it is NOT the real eternal PERSON (jiva-soul) inside the material body that dies, it is the material body.

The material body is NOT a person, it has no identity, individuality or personality because it is matter that merges back into the "oneness" of material energy when the jiva-soul (the real spiritual individual PERSON) leaves the material bodily vessel.  

The material body (energy) covers who one really is, who is the eternal jiva-soul' spiritual identity (svarupa) and unique individual personality. 

Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”.

Hari-sauri dasa– “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”

Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.

Hari-sauri dasa- “They are covered in the spiritual world?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

The jiva-soul in its original position IS a spiritual bodily form like Krsna, and is always that form eternally, but can voluntarily change their appearance at any time they choose so they can enter a particular pastime. 

The jiva-soul can also appear as a bodiless "spark" which is an individual impersonal feature however, that can ONLY happen when the jiva-soul "falls down" from their original infinite position in the spiritual world of "being" the spiritual bodily form they are eternally (either on the Vaikuntha planets or in Krsna's central abode of Goloka-Vrindavana) 

Srila Prabhupada told us long ago that the original features of the individual jiva-soul is a 2 armed bodily form like Krsna.

From there all other forms are voluntary and possible such as the 4 armed form on the Vaikuntha planets similar to Visnus Body.

So being a "spark" in the Brahmajyoti or dormant in the atom are FALLEN conditions of the jiva-soul.

The jiva-soul's infinite feature and full potential is a bodily form like Krsna. ALL jiva-souls eternally ARE an spiritual bodily form without a beginning or end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is teaches.

The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.

The jiva-souls “generated” from the "marginal plane" does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from a beginning source because the jiva-souls were NEVER created.

Being "Generated" means the individual jiva-souls are part and parcel of a category of living entities called the "marginal living entities" (marginal plane) who eternally exist as individual spiritual PERSONS and are beginningless and endless like Krsna.

This also means the jiva-souls did NOT originate from the impersonal (inactive) brahmajyoti, tatastha-sakti or the Body of Maha-Visnu.

The jiva-souls NEVER appeared from anyone (including Krsna), or some source called tatastha-sakti because they were NEVER created, the jiva-souls are eternal like Krsna who has ALWAYS existed.

Furthermore, the jiva-souls NEVER originated from the impersonal (inactive) brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Visnu (both an already fallen condition the jiva-souls fall too Prabhupada explains)

Srila Prabhupada - "So this temporary material world is the taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the permanent (personal) characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the permanent (personal)  characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha śakti." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 Text 4-5 Bombay, March 30, 1971)

Maya or material energy does NOT exist in the spiritual world however, free will always exists and allows the jiva-souls to make their own decisions, offerings, contributions etc and even accept or reject Krsna if they choose. 

Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) from Vaikuntha into the material creation in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53, where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana.

The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 28 text 53)

The brahman effulgence (impersonal brahmajyoti), is a "fallen condition" the individual jiva-souls fall down too but can never remain in that "fallen condition" eternally. 

Eventually, they are forced to leave that dormant inactive condition because the nature of the jiva-souls is to always be "active" in the service of Krsna and NOT remain inactive. 

So, eventually the fallen jiva-souls leave the impersonal brahmajyoti and again take birth in the material world.

Revatīnandana dasa - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana dasa - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)

We are all "old souls" because the jiva-souls have always existed. There was no beginning to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) existence, nor will there be an end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. 

The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can NEVER be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 text 12, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament."  (BG, Ch 2 text 27, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the material body can never be slain. Therefore, you need not grieve for any living being." (BG, Ch 2 text 30, 1983 edition)

If the jiva-souls choose, they CAN stay in the temporary decaying material universe's cycles of birth and death, and cycles of material annihilation and creations for an almost infinity!

There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed, which is eternity.

Also there is no Maya or material temptations in the spiritual world because Maya does not exist there. So Maya is NEVER the cause of fall down however, there is ALWAYS "free will" in the spiritual world Prabhupada explains.

Only when the jiva-souls are fallen do they appear formless or an impersonal spark or individual unit in Krsna's effulgence (impersonal aspect of the brahmajyoti) or dormant in the Body of Maha-Visnu.

Actually Krsna is everything! He is both "all-pervasive" and is an individual PERSON as a spiritual bodily form.

The fact is Krsna and His expansions including the individual jīva-souls, ARE all individual PERSONS as an eternal spiritual bodily form.

At all times the jiva-soul's spiritual bodily appearance is similar to Krsna's form, both Krsna and the jiva-souls were NEVER created. Both exist for infinity!

Although the jiva-souls can voluntarily change their appearance at ant time and be a flower, or a tree, or gopi, or cowherd boy, a chair Krsna sits on, or the grass Krsna walks on, or a cloud in the sky Krsna admires, the choices are unlimited. 

The jiva-souls can be the flag pole on Krsna's chariot, or even Krsna's chariot, and at any moment change back to a 2 armed or 4 armed human like form. No bodily form is fixed in the spiritual worlds, the jiva-soul's rasa can constantly change.

It is all voluntary, you can be what ever you want to be if it is you genuine desire to please or amuse Krsna.

In the spiritual worlds the choice of the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is voluntary from a blade of grass to a tree, a cow or gopi.

Their, individual contributions are eternally expressed on both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in a "two-way' reciprocal exchange with Krsna in unlimited different ways and bodily forms over eternity. 

Only the "eternal presence" of Krsna exists in the spiritual world, where as in the material creation time is divided into "past, present and future" which causes a progressive state of decay, decline, impermanence and forgetfulness.

In the spiritual worlds the jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do, everything there is voluntary.

Also, there is no best bodily form in the spiritual world because ALL bodily forms the jiva-soul can voluntarily choose are equally blissful and equal to each other.

From the two armed bodily form in Vrindavana to the 4 armed bodily form on the Vaikuntha planets, to being a cow, an ant, a bee, a cloud in the sky, a bench, a fence, etc. Every aspect of the spiritual world is alive with unlimited individuals, nothing material (dead) can exist there in the spiritual world.

All jiva-souls as what ever form they choose to be, are equally blissful with what ever bodily form they choose to be. 

The human form is NOT higher or better than any other form one may choose to be on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana, just like in this world some like carnation flowers while others prefer roses, it's an individual voluntary choice best for you serving the Lord.

Although even though everything is equally blissful in the spiritual world, there are 5 different relationships with Krsna, with each one gradually becoming more intimate than the previous one.

One's original 2 armed spiritual body is always there as the basis, there is just a transformation of your spiritual body into a form you voluntarily choose.

From human form to a blade of grass, a cow, a horse, a chair, a cloud in the sky, a peacock, a different type of human, a four armed form like Visnu/Narayana on the Vaikuntha planets, there are unlimited different voluntary choices.×××.

Surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is NOT impersonal.

All aspiring devotees should understand surrender does not mean extinguishing your individuality, voluntary contributions and unique personality.

"Surrender" to Krsna's pure devotee does not mean you become "mindless" by giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality, unique ways of self expression and the awareness of being an independent contributing PERSON eternally.

Srila Prabhupada - "Surrender BY your intelligence but don't surrender your intelligence."(Letter to Bali Mardan 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed by only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness but how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down to the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."

Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father.

Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done? So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father,  so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

The spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are not a dictatorial domineering impersonal places where everyone is forced to do what only Krsna wants.

The jiva-souls always have a choice.

The Kingdom of God is not impersonal and cold like that because there are always loving exchanges going on, based on cooperation, reciprocation and voluntary personal contributions and offerings by Krsna's devotees eternally if they choose to do so.

There is always "two-way" reciprocal feelings and loving emotions going on between Krsna and His devotees eternally if they choose to do so, or they can even reject Krsna if they want.

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you go. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this. It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is not impersonal, surrender does not mean giving up your "intelligence", "free will", "individuality" and the awareness of being the "independent unique" contributing person you really are eternally.

That impersonal version of God's Kingdom is a fools paradise where one's ability of self expression is extinguished by a "one-way" dictatorship.

So, is there a place in the spiritual world from where the jiva-soul (marginal living entity) can never fall down from?

No, staying in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana is not based on being in a place from where you can never fall down from.

It does not work that way because staying or going is based on free will which means it is ‘’your choice’’ to voluntary stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and keeping your relationship with Krsna.

Love is always a "two-way" street, if Krsna forced you to love Him, then how can being forced to love Krsna, be genuine love?

Loving relationships can only work in a "two-way" exchange based on reciprocation and loving selfless service with two involved sharing loving interchanges.

In this way, the Kingdom of God is never a domineering "one-way" dictatorship run by Krsna.

Krsna is not like that at all.

The fact is, such a "one-way" impersonal master/servant dictatorship is a cold loveless relationship of convenience that only destroy one's real freedom of self expression (free will) and sense of individual self by having one's own unique personality separate from Krsna's Personality, who can choose how to serve Krsna in their own unique way, or even reject Krsna if one chooses.

Such freedom both ways must be there if love is to truly exist.

Remaining in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana eternally is based on the marginal living entities unique personality who can make their own choices based on their free will. This means all jiva-souls can reject Krsna if they want. 

This also means being able to choose in Goloka-Vrindavana the type of spiritual body one can voluntarily be to serve Krsna. 

Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world how one serves Krsna is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

Each individual jiva-soul has their own unique personal contributions they can choose to offer with love to the Lord while associating with Him as the perpetual individual eternal independent servant they are eternally.

No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality and character when choosing to engage in loving exchanges of service with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupāda - "Unless there are two-persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

The jiva-soul never loses their free will (freedom), in Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha, which means their own individual ability of self expression, when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that are unique to each individual jiva-souls (jiva-tattva)

Each jiva-soul (marginal living entity) has this eternal marginal quality, which is part and parcel of there perpetual make up or constitution as being the marginal living entity or jiva-soul they are eternally.

In this way, each of the jiva-soul's have their own individual sense of self, character and personality separate from Krsna, and being a unique one of a kind in the Spiritual Sky different from all other jiva-souls.

Again it is important to understand this means that no two jiva-souls are the same.

This eternally existing spiritual social code, that includes free will and an independent personal sense of self, allows character and personality in each jiva-soul that exists eternally, without any beginning or ending point.

This quality of "free will" is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.

This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent PERSON while serving Krsna, being unique and different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.

Free will means it is the jiva-soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna also, or even not surrender to Krsna if they choose.

Although that is rare, the fact is more than 90% of jiva-souls never choose to foolishly reject Krsna and fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana to the material creation.

Only less than 10% choose to reject Krsna and therefore enter the material creation Prabhupada tells us.

Those jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana who reject Visnu or Krsna obviously cannot stay there in the spiritual worlds.

The only place available for them is the temporary material creation of Maha-Visnu meant for those who choose to leave the spiritual worlds.

It is the jiva-soul's choice of what THEY want do, the fact is over 90% always offer and contribute their very best voluntarily to Krsna out of selfless love.

But also each jiva-soul knows they please Krsna the most by humbly and selflessly serving the servants of the servants of Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavan or Vaikuntha.

This selflessness of serving the servants of the servants of Krsna is the highest realization of love of God.

The fact is, it is rare that the jiva-soul falls from Krsna's (God) personal Kingdoms of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

However, it is the jiva-soul's personal responsibility and choice to voluntarily stay with Krsna, or leave Krsna if they choose (although that is very rare)

The jiva-souls can also choose how to serve Krsna in the spiritual worlds the way they want because free will allows them to make their own personal offerings. 

And nobody else, including Krsna, interferes with that choice.

This is because Krsna never forces us to love Him or interferes with our voluntary service to Him, there is always choice otherwise, if Kṛṣṇa never allowed free will, which He can do because He is the cause of all causes, the jiva-souls are no better than dead uselss stone!

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada explains in "Nectar of Devotion", that just like the Sun-disc cannot be separated from the sun-rays, similarly Krsna can never be separated from His parts and parcels (the marginal living entities or jiva-souls) or His Visnu-tattva expansions. 

Srila Prabhupada - "As the Sun-disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, similarly Kṛṣṇa and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated." (Krsna Book, 89)

The relationship between Krsna and His jiva-soul expansions (marginal living entities) is never "one-sided," never forced and never impersonal, it is always a personal relationship based on reciprocation, loving exchanges and voluntary service, all expressed in a "two-way" exchange, only then can real love exist within a relationship because the above explanation is what love is.

In this way, Srila Prabhupada explained to us many years ago-

"If you love me, then I will love you"

Here he is giving us the example that there must always be loving cooperation, exchanges and reciprocation, responding with each other with selfless kindness.

In other words, love can never exist with just "one," there must always be "two." Loving exchanges and cooperation can only exist when there are TWO.

As said above, more than 90% of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) choose to never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because their choice is to stay with Visnu or Krsna.

That expression of freedom or "free will" in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, is always eternally part and parcel of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) natural constitution and has always existed.

The jiva-soul or marginal living entity, have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities which is 50 of His 64 qualities. Being a marginal living entity also includes having free will.

This puts jiva-souls in the realm of having their own "sense of independent self, unique identity, personality, individuality, character and the ability to choose for themselves how they want to serve Krsna.

This means the jiva-souls have the freedom to agree or not agree with Krsna if they choose.

This quality of individuality and independence allows the jiva-soul the ability to choose to serve Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna and enter the material creation.

Remember, Maya and the material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, so MAYA is unknown to the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

However, having "free will" and an independent personality gives the jiva-souls a unique sense of independence.

This allows the jiva-soul to express themselves in their own unique way.

These qualities are eternally the constitutional makeup of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

The jiva-souls have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities which means they each have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities.

As said above, the jiva-souls are independent expansions of Krsna who have their own personality separate from Krsna's Personality.

The jiva-souls also have free will eternally that is independent from Krsna's dominance and absolute control, that He has kindly allowed for the purpose of each jiva-soul independently expressing themselves as a unique individual.   

However, there is a paradox here, yes, the jiva-souls do have their independence and free will in the spiritual world, but are always simultaneously fully dependent on Krsna at all times.

This is because EVERYTHING, all the energies in both the spiritual and material worlds, come from Krsna, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes. 

The jiva-souls are always dependent on Krsna or Visnu/Narayana in the spiritual world, and in the material world always dependent on-

1 - Mahā-Visnu (Kāraṇodakaśāyī Visnu) seen in painting below.

2 - Garbhodakaśāyī Visnu (Hiraņyagarbha) 

3 - Ksirodakaśāyī Visnu (Paramātmā, Supersoul)

The Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna like Visnu, Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakashayi Visnu etc, have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities, which is 93.75% of Krsna's attributes.  

Krsna has many different energies known sakti-

1 - The jiva-souls are one, 

2 - Matter (mahat-tattva) is one, 

3 - The consort expansion Srimati Radharani (Krsna's internal potency also known as Visnu-"sakti"-tattva) is one.

4 - Kṛṣṇa's unlimited Visnu-tattva expansions beginning with Balarama, is one.

Srila Prabhupada - "Sakti or shakti means the "energy of Krsna." (SB Canto 4 Ch 6 text 43, Purport)

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are parts and parcels of Krsna and are also part of the sakti energy of Krsna, along with other categories of living entities known as Viṣṇu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva expansions of Krsna and Siva-tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - "Tattva is manifested in different ways:

1 - Viṣṇu-tattva,

2 - Viṣṇu-"śakti"-tattva,

3 - jīva-tattva (jiva-souls), like that". (Lecture on SB 6.2.7 - Vrndavana, Sep 10, 1975)

If "free will" is taken away from the marginal living entities (jiva-souls), then they lose the ability to express  themselves, to give and receive love.  

This means they becomes no better than dead stone Prabhupada has warned us, or no better than a mindless robot, slave or drone.

For loving exchanges to truly exist, the jiva-souls must have their free will or freedom of expression which is part and parcel of their marginal constitutional make up that allows them to choose how they want to serve Krsna with voluntary contributions (the real meaning of surrender) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

And sadly, the fact is, a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan (less than 10% Prabhupada has explained), regardless of how some have claimed no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana once there, which is technically not true.

This is not true because the jiva-souls can leave the spiritual world any time they choose to do so.

The way to understand this is those jiva-souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will never fall down, but only if they choose not to fall down, it is their choice ALWAYS.

In other words, if a jiva-soul wants to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana they certainly can leave.

To make the blanket nonsense comment that "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana" does not take into consideration the "free will" of the jiva-souls.

But they should remember what Prabhupada said, that over 90% of jiva-souls never enter the material creation in a fallen condition.

However, to leave and end up in the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's individual choice, and the fact is, Krsna does not interfere with that, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation, the fact is there IS return if the jiva-soul wants to return as Prabhupada explains here-

Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns to the material world. He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return, that is voluntary."  

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains as follows, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva souls choice too, it is not just a one way decision that Ksna makes, no, real loving exchanges can never exist without free will.

For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity, the jiva-soul must have the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime if they want, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara - Henri Bergson)

For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have not understood these clear points explained by Prabhupada.

Many also do not understand the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, and that it is only a very small minority of jiva-souls, who are endowed with free will, who can choose to leave.

The majority do not even know the material creation exists not care.

The fact is, there are many different other inhabitants of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana too who are not jiva-soul (jiva-tattva) and never fall down by choice because they are more direct expansions of Krsna, such as the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattvas who are Krsna Himself just playing another role in His own pastimes.

Therefore they never fall down because they are Krsna and not jiva-tattva.

They are simultaneously His eternal associates and Krsna Himself experiencing Himself in unlimited different ways.

So for the Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattvas, they choose just like Krsna chooses because they are Krsna just playing a different role in His pastimes.

Just like the Pancha-tattva where only one out the the five is jiva-tattva, all the rest are different direct expansions of Krsna's Personality.

And for over 90% of the jiva-tattva-souls, who always have the ability to choose as an independent person, they also never fall down or leave either because they never "choose" to do so but can if they want too, that free will is always there.

Devotee - “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.

Srila Prabhupada - “No! There is possibility, but he does not come IF he is intelligent.

Just like putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you'reintelligent.

So those who are going back to Godhead, they must become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life.

So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become." (Discussions with Syamasundara Dasa).

However, as said above,  Prabhupada has explained there will always be a very small minority of only the jiva-tattva souls, who have free will, fall down

Less than 10% (not the Visnu-sakti-tattva or Visnu-tattva "direct expansions"of Krsna) who can misuse their free will and "choose" to leave Krsna if they want.

"Free will" for the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) is eternal in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, and without this freedom to be able to choose to either forget or remember Krsna, then the jiva-souls would have no individuality, no independent personality, and no ability to love.

The jiva-souls would simply be mindless ''yes men and woman'' like machine drones in a factory, or like a dead lifeless stone Prabhupada has tells us here.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you can go. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

In Bhagavad Gita As It Is Krsna promises the jiva-souls they will never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana to the material creation, and yes, Krsna will always keeps His promise!

However, Krsna's promise of never falling down to the material creation once there, is from Krsna's point of view, so does the jiva-soul also have to accept His promise as final? 

What about their free will?

In other words, does this mean the jiva-souls have no choice and can never "choose" to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana even if they want to leave?

Krsna's promise, confirmed in sastra that once reaching Vaikuntha the jiva-soul will never again fall down to the material World, is true for most souls, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM because some "choose" to reject Krsna's promise.

Those great souls who quote Krsna's promise from Bhagavad-Gita As It Is are right for the majority of jiva-souls, which is over 90% in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana who "choose" to never fall down or leave Vaikuntha to enter the mundane material creation.

This is because the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have the free will to express themselves separate from Krsna's influence.  

This means they have independent thinking and have a choose to stay or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

In other words, Krsna's promise is not binding or absolute law with the marginal living entities because the jiva-souls have the free will to make their own choice.

Srila Prabhupada explains Krsna's promise and gives the proper explanation in full saying a small minority of jiva-souls do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and puts that figure at less than 10%.

So, why do some jiva-souls fall down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana?

The only living entities who l fall down are the "marginal living entities" (jiva-souls) because being marginal means free will.

Other living entities in the category of Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva, of whom there are many, never fall down because they are all direct expansions of Krsna and not separate expansions like the jiva-souls.

For the jiva-souls, loving exchanges are not possible on a "one-way street" or dictatorship because love is based on reciprocation and exhanges between two, not just one. 

This means that not some so called God does all your thinking for you, if it did then individuality and free will would not exist at all making one no better than dead stone!

Therefore we must not forget that the jiva-soul's always have the right of self expression in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, meaning the jiva-souls also have their contributions to offer too.

This means the jiva-souls can choose too expressed themselves from their point of view rather than be dictated too by some God.

This is why love can never be experienced with just "one" because real love only works in voluntary exchanges of feelings between two.

In other words genuine loving exchanges or service is always a "two-way" street and can never exist in a dictatorship or in slaverly dominating conditions.

Only impersonalists preach we are all one collective consciousness, and that "surrender" means giving up free will, individuality and that everyone should become a "little Krsna imitaters".

It is a fact Krsna can do anything He wants to do however, if Kṛṣṇa forced His will and complete dominance and control on the jiva-souls, then they would be no better than dead stone Prabhupada tells us.

Such "one-way" control by this kind of God will totally destroy the jiva-soul's independent ability to express themselves as individuals, denying them of their natural free will (freedom).

Therefore if Krsna did force the jiva-souls to love Him, then how can that be real genuine love as Prabhupada explains above.

By promising He will never let the jiva-soul fall by forcing the jiva-soul to comply, can be seen as interfering with the free will and individuality of the jiva-soul.

This is because, they too are entitled to their choice of serving or even not serving Krsna if they choose.

The fact is Krsna will never make that decision for the jiva-soul, otherwise one's sense of free will is violated, and there can be no question of love if the jiva-soul has no right to choose for themselves.

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

"Free will" or freedom is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the spiritual world as ignorant fools believe.

Free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and therefore always exists without beginning or end in the spiritual planets.

However, free will in its full potential, is only fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavan, which is the jiva-souls original perpetual home.

Ultimately in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, it is also the jiva-souls choice of how they want to serve Krsna.

Surrendering to Krsna does not mean giving up your free will as previously explained.

This is because He only wants loving servants who "choose" to be with Him through their own free will and personal offerings of service, to serve and love Him voluntarily and never forced to serve Him by saying 

"once you are in Goloka Vrindavana, never again will you leave or fall down."

No, that is not Krsns's complete call because it is not only His choice, a loving relationship can only exist when there are two consenting personalities, it is also the jiva-soul's choice to remain there as servant of the servant of Krsna as weĺl, or even leave if they choose to do so.

The jiva-soul's independent nature actually allows them to make their own choices, including leaving the spiritual world if they choose.

The relationship between servant and Master is never one-way, never impersonal, it is a perpetual relationship based on "reciprocation", based on loving exchanges between TWO.

The promise by Krsna that the jiva-soul will never again fall down into the material world, is from His point of view as explained above.

Ultimately it is not only Krsna's will and complete control, no, it is a joint decision between the jiva-souls and Krsna.

The spiritual worlds are NOT dictatorships where one is a yes man or women denying their personal contributions and offerings.

Sadly, many cannot understand these facts regardless of who they are, or how great of a jiva-soul they claim to be, or others claim they are in spiritual matters.

The fact is each jiva-soul is an independent unique individual who has free will, having 78.125% of Krsns's qualities (having 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities) within their own personality, sense of self and unique identity separate from Krsna's Personality.

Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening.

Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal voluntary offerings based on free will and selfless loving reciprocation with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.

This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that they only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique "person" they are eternally.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Krsna has many different energies. Jiva is one, Matter is one, the consorts of the Lord are one.

Srila Prabhupada - "Sakti or shakti means the "energy of Krsna."(SB Canto 4 Chapter 6 text 43, Purport)

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are sakti-tattva living entities. (sakti means the many energies of Krsna living and none-living) who are living parts and parcels of Krsna but also includes innate material "energy" or dead matter.

Krsna who is compared to the Sun-disc and His variety of living entities above are compared to the sun-rays, only Krsna's Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva living entities are direct expansions of Krsna that are almost equal to Krsna.

The Sun-disc and the sun-rays cannot exist separately from each other, similarly, those living entities in the marginal category (jiva-souls), even though they have their independence, cannot exist separately from Krsna.

The Sun-disc and the sun-rays cannot exist separately from each other, similarly the variety of the living entities (Krsna's parts and parcels) cannot exist separately from Krsna.

Each "jiva-soul" (marginal living entity) is a one of a kind independent individual with their own unique personality different from all other personalities, including Krsnas.

No two individual jiva-souls are the same, and no jiva-souls can ever become God (Krsna or Visnu).

Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6.1.1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)×××