There it is explained the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana.
The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (4th Canto Ch 28 text 53)
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) sometimes fall down into the material creation from Vaikuntha, they do not originate from the Impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) or the Body of Maha-Visnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness - Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana." (Letter to, Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples-
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go. All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done?" So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
The spiritual planets of Visnu/ Narayana known as Vaikuntha, and the central abode of Krsna known as Goloka-Vrindavana, are not dictatorial impersonal abodes one enters by renouncing their ability of free expression (free will) and being able to voluntarily contribute to the relationship with Krsna in their own unique personal way based on reciprocation and loving exchanges.
In this way the jiva-souls relationship with Krsna is never a one-way street, it is always a two-way relationship based on mutual respect of voluntary service between Krsna and His devotees (the jiva-souls)
Although Krsna's pure devotees never take Krsna for granted, many in Vrindavana do not know who He really is, but sees Him as an amazing very special little boy who will always protect His friends.
To visiting sages like Narada Muni, they know Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
Having free will includes rejecting Krsna if one choose, otherwise there is no meaning to free will Prabhupada has explained.
Free will means there are always voluntarily loving exchanges, cooperation and reciprocation going on between Krsna and Visnu and the devotees.
This measns surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is not impersonal, it does not mean giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality and the ability to express yourself in your own unique way by voluntarily contributing to one's relationship with Krsna.
Question - Is there a place in the spiritual worlds from where the jiva-souls can never fall down from?
Answer - No, because their is always free will and independence. One's relationship with Krsna and Visnu is based on free will which allows loving exchanges to happen on a two-way platform or reject Krsna at any time if they choose.
There is always choice in one's voluntary relationship with Krsna. If Krsna forced the jiva-souls to love Him, then how can that forced so called surrender to Krsna be genuine love?
Loving relationships can only exist in a "two-way exchange" with Krsna based on reciprocation and cooperation and never in a one-way dominating manipulative relationship.
The Kingdoms of God (Krsna and Visnu) are never a one-sided domineering dictatorship because such a one-sided dominating affair will only destroy one's independent self, unique individuality and free will (freedom of expression)
Only in a "two-way" relationship can there be the unique sense of individuality of having a personality separate from Krsna's Personality.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means two, there must be two, the lover and the beloved." (Lecture on BG Ch 9 text 2-5, NY City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be "one" or love cannot be experienced by on one, there must be two, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Genuine love is voluntary and can never exist in a "one-way or one-sided" domineering way where personal contributions are denied, ignored, controlled and never appreciated.
That kind of impersonal association only extinguishes the jiva-soul's individuality, free-will, and their ability to voluntarily contribute their own unique offerings.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world service is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there if they want to be a flower and lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body also. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)
Such freedoms explained above MUST be there if genuine love and service is to truly exist.
Remaining in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana eternally is based on choice. The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) always have, as part of their constitutional make up, the right to make their own choices without any force from Krsna or Visnu.
This means being able to freely choose for themselves in Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha what to offer the Lord.
This allows them to voluntary offer the very best from their unique personality, contributing with love to the Lord while associating with Him as the perpetual individual servant they are eternally.
No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality and character when engaging in loving devotional exchanges of service to Krsna.
Srila Prabhupāda - ''Love means "two persons," then there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
The jiva-souls never lose their free will in Krsna's Kingdom, which is their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer personal contributions to the relationship.
Each jiva-soul (marginal living entity) has their own eternal qualities unique to them, which is part and parcel of the perpetual make up or constitution of each marginal living entity or jiva-soul eternally.
In this way, each jiva-soul has their own individual sense of self, identity, character and personality that is separate from Krsna's Personality, being one of a kind in the Spiritual Sky different from all other jiva-souls as said above.
Each jiva-soul is independent or separate from Krsna with their own unique personality, likes and dislikes in the Spiritual worlds.
This eternally existing spiritual code based on the "free will" to uniquely serve Krsna, allows the jiva-souls to voluntarily make their own independence personal contributions and offerings.
The jiva-soul's firm sense of individual self of being an eternal person with their own character and personality that is unique to each individual jiva-soul.
Such qualities of the jiva-souls are without any beginning or ending point as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 corrected edition) confirm.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20 1983 edition)
There are no new jiva-souls being created! The jiva-souls here have ALWAYS existed and were NEVER created.
Srila Prabhupada - "There is no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be a new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)
Therefore Maha-Visnu also does not create any jiva-souls as some big sannyasis and gurus foolishly believe and teach their followers.
What happens is the jiva-souls go to Maha-Visnu after falling down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, to then aquire (hire) a material bodily vessel so they can enter the material creation, no jiva-souls originates from Maha-Visnu as some foolishly teach.
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)
All jiva-souls are beginningless and endless, they were NEVER created, not even by Krsna and are just as old as Kṛṣṇa which means they NEVER cease to exist.
The implications of this comment is mind boggling because it ALSO means that over an never ending eternity, you (the individual jiva-soul) can experience "being" EVERY material bodily form there is in the material world.
Understanding the meaning of the term "marginal energy."
The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's “marginal energy,” the marginal energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities and NOT some place where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm ARE the individual jiva-souls!
This simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy or under the influence of the material energy.
The marginal realm or potency is NOT a place, as clearly said above the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls.
Many misunderstanding this fact.
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva souls), who have existed as long as Krsna has existed.
The marginal platform means the "jiva-souls" or spirit souls, who naturally belong as individuals in the supreme spiritual energy with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally, explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul) Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Therefore, being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some so called place in the Brahmajyoti.
First of all, being placed in the marginal category means having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (their nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy.
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can be choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created.
This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have always existed as emphasised above.
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
Being a "marginal" living entity (jiva-soul) also means having the free will to accept or reject Krsna.
All marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are EQUALLY intimate and uniquely exclusively personal with Krsna (God) in His eyes within His Kingdom regardless of the pastime.
This is because in the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's “marginal energy,” the marginal energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities and NOT some place where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm ARE the individual jiva-souls!
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Krsna and the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have always exist together like the Sun-disc and the sun-rays always exist together. Krsna is like the Sun-disc who maintains all the sun-rays (jiva-souls)
The jiva-souls are Krsna's part and parcel who are known as the "marginal living entities."
This means they can be influenced by either the spiritual or the material world. Having free will is also part and parcel of the jiva-soul's eternal constitution.
Nothing can happen without Krsna's sanction including free will however, for the jiva-souls to experience their full potential as individual thinking living beings they must have the freedom to voluntarily enter a two-sided relationship of loving exchanges with Krsna.
If Krsna never allowed free will, then He would be surrounded by mindless drones making Him cruel cold dictatorial uselss God!
Free will allows the jiva-souls to personally be aware they are unique individual, independent "persons" who can voluntarily choose to serve Krsna in a way they choose, or even reject Him.
Free will means it is the jiva-soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana or Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets, or even not surrender to Krsna if they choose.
Although in the spiritual sky that is rare, more than 90% of jiva-souls never choose to foolishly reject Krsna, only less than 10% choose to reject Krsna and enter the material creation Prabhupada has explained.
If the jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana reject Visnu or Krsna, then they obviously cannot stay there.
The only place available for them is the temporary material creation meant for those who choose to leave the spiritual worlds.
It is also their choice of what they want to offer or contribute to the Lord, which is their very best from their personal abilities that they voluntary choose to selflessly offer to Krsna.
Each jiva-soul in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana knows when they please Krsna the best most by humbly and selflessly serving the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavan or Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets.
This selflessness of serving Krsna's devotees is the highest realization of love of God.
For the jiva-souls not to fall from God's personal Kingdom, is the jiva-soul's personal choice too, they are fully responsibility for their own individuality, and are aware of their independent choices, that Krsna will never interfere with, even if they choose to reject Krsna.
This "free will" allows them to voluntarily choose as they want, and nobody else, including Krsna, will interfere with that choice because Krsna never forces the jiva-souls to love Him at the point of a gun.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, "You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - ''Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada explains in "Nectar of Devotion", that just like the Sun-disc cannot be separated from the sun-rays, similarly the living entities have no meaning without Krsna, and Kṛṣṇa has no meaning without the living entities.
In Krsna Book Prabhupada explains-
"As the Sun-disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, similarly Kṛṣṇa and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated." (Krsna Book, 89)
As explained above, the relationship between Krsna and His jiva-soul individual expansions (marginal living entities) is never "one-sided," never forced and never impersonal, it is always a personal relationship of reciprocation, nurturing, voluntary service, in a "two-way" mood of loving service, only then can there be genuine loving exchanges in a relationship.
Srila Prabhupada explained to us many years ago-
"If you love me, then I will love you"
Srila Prabhupada is giving us the example that there must always be a "voluntary two-way exchange" of loving cooperation and kindness so genuine reciprocation exists on a two-way street.
In other words, love can never exist with just one, there must always be loving exchanges and cooperation between two.
The fact is 90% of all living entities (jiva-tattva souls or marginal living entities) choose to never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, because that is THEIR choice.
That expression of freedom or free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana is always eternally part and parcel of the marginal living entities natural constitution.
The jiva-souls or marginal living entities, have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities, meaning they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
As explained above, this puts marginal living entities in the realm of having their own separate independent self, identity, individuality, unique character and personality separate from Krsna's Personality, allowing them to voluntarily make their own choices.
This means the jiva-souls have the ability to agree or not agree with Krsna in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
This sense of individuality and independence allows the jiva-souls the right to choose Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna and enter the material creation if they want.
Remember Maya and the material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, so MAYA is unknown to the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) there.
However, having free will and independently experiencing a unique sense of individual self with the ability of self expression, is eternally the constitutional makeup of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls are minor a expansion of the Lord with their own personality separate from Krsna's Personality.
Unlike the direct Visnu-tattva expansions who all have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (93.75%) who are different personalities of Krsna playing different roles in His own pastimes.
If free will is taken away from the jiva-souls, then they lose the ability to voluntarily give and accept love. The jiva-souls would be no better than dead stone or mindless drones.
For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls must have their free will (ability to choose) that is part and parcel of their marginal constitution, so they can choose for themselves how to serve Krsna by voluntary serving Him.
This is the the real meaning of surrendering to Krsna's will in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana at all times.
Part of Krsna's will is the jiva-soul's free will.
As said above, sadly a small minority of jiva-souls do choose to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavan (less than 10%), regardless of those who foolishly claim once in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, one will never again falls down.
Not true, they CAN again fall if they choose even if Krsna promises they will never again fall to the material creation.
The reason why is the jiva-soul's have their free will and therefore can reject Krsna's promise of protecting them. Without this "free will" the jiva-souls are just mindless drones no better of than dead stone.
Many devotees including some gurus and sannyasis, do not understand the meaning of free will includes the above.
To say those in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will never fall down is true, but only for those who "choose" not to fall down.
In other words, it is not only up to Krsna, if the jiva-souls want to leave the spiritual worlds, it is is their choice, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.
To make the blanket nonsense comment that "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana" is nonsense and does not take into consideration the "free will" of the jiva-souls.
However, we should remember what Prabhupada has said, that over 90% of jiva-souls never enter the material creation in a fallen condition because they choose not to fall down and forget Krsna.
To leave Vaikuntha and end up in the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's individual right of choice, and the fact is, Krsna does not interfere with that, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation, the fact is, there IS return if the jiva-souls want to return as Prabhupada explains here-
Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns". He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains as follows, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva souls choice too, it is not just a one way decision that Krsna makes, no, real loving exchanges can never exist without free will.
For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity, the jiva-soul must have the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana at anytime if they want, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We CAN misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara, Henri Bergson 1976)
For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have not understood these clear points explained by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Many also do not understand the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, and marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can choose to leave if they want to because they are separate living entities with their own unique personality.
The majority of jiva-souls (over 90%) do not choose to leave, and all other categories of living entities, Krsna's more direct Visnu-tattva expansions, never fall down because they are Krsna playing another roll in His pastimes.
There are many different inhabitants of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana who are not jiva-souls and therefore never fall down by choice because they are direct expansions of Krsna, such as the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas living entities like Radharani and the many Gopis (cow herd girls) and Gopas (cow herd boys) [not all are expansions of Krsna but most are] who are Krsna Himself just playing another role in His own pastimes.
They are simultaneously His eternal associates and Krsna Himself experiencing Himself in unlimited different ways.
So for the Visnu-tattvas and the Visnu "sakti"- tattvas, are expansions of Krsna and do what Krsna plans for them in a particular pastimes.
They even sometimes play the part of a demon in one of Krsna's plays, but ONLY in the material creation because there are no demons in the Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana in the spiritual worlds.
Out of the Pancha-tattva devotees, only one out the the five is a jiva-soul, all the rest are different direct expansions of Krsna's Personality mixed with other personalities like Siva.
Devotee - "I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is possibility, but he does not come IF he is intelligent. Just like after putting your hand in the fire you never put it again. So those who are going back to Godhead, they must become intelligent."(Discussions with Syamasundara Dasa).
As said above, Prabhupada has explained there will always be a very small minority of jiva-souls, less than 10%, who can misuse their free will leave if they want.
Free will for the jiva-souls is eternal in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, and without this freedom of being able to choose to either forget or remember Krsna, then the jiva-souls would have no independent personality and no ability to give or receive love, the jiva-souls would simply be mindless ''yes men and woman'' like puppets in the hands of the puppeteer.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
In Bhagavad Gita As It Is Krsna promises the jiva-souls they will never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana once there to the material creation, and yes, Krsna will always keeps His promise.
However, Krsna's promise of never falling down to the material creation once there, is from Krsna's point of view, so does the jiva-soul also have to accept His promise as final, Do they have a choice?
In other words, does this mean the jiva-souls have no choice and can never leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana even if they want to leave?
Krsna's promise that once reaching Vaikuntha, the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material world, is true for most jiva-souls, but not all of them simply because of free will.
Those who quote Krsna's promise from Bhagavad Gita are right for the majority of jiva-souls, which is over 90% who never fall down with the 10% that do, or leave to enter the material creation, but this does not mean all jiva-souls.
The fact is, any jiva-soul can eventually fall down in this regards, nothing is permanent even in the spiritual world because of free will.
Each jiva-soul has their own free will and independent thinking, this means it is their choice if they stay or leave and not just Krsnas.
In other words, Krsna's promise is not binding or an absolute law with all living entities because the jiva-souls have their free will, making it their choice too.
Srila Prabhupada explains Krsna's promise and gives the proper explanation in full saying a small minority of jiva-souls do choose Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and puts that figure at less than 10%.
So why do some souls fall down?
To understand this one must realize that ultimately loving exchanges are not just a one-way street or dictatorship, it is based on reciprocation and loving exhanges between two, not just one.
This means even Krsna had to divide Himself into two just to experience loving exchanges and those two are Radharani and Krsna.
Therefore we must not forget the jiva-soul's right of expression too, the jiva-souls also have their choices and say too expressed from their point of view.
This is because love is always based on reciprocation, a two-way street between two.
Only impersonalists preach that surrender means giving up your free will, individuality and your unique personality.
It is a fact Krsna can do anything He wants to do however, if Krsna forced His will and complete dominance on the jiva-souls, then they would be no better than dead stone Prabhupada tells us.
Such absolute one way control by this kind of God will only totally destroy the jiva-soul's independent expression of individuality and there natural eternal constitution right of self expression and free will (freedom)
And if Krsna did force His will on the jiva-souls to love Him, then how can that be real genuine love as Prabhupada explains above?
By promising He will never let the jiva-souls fall by forcing the jiva-souls to comply, can be seen as interfering with the free will and individuality of the jiva-soul's ability to make their own choices.
This is because, they too are entitled to their choice of serving or even not serving Krsna if they choose.
The fact is Krsna will never make that decision for the jiva-souls, otherwise one's free will is violated, and there can be no question of love if the jiva-souls have no right to choose for themselves.
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada, why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then youpoolwill. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Free will or freedom of choice, is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the spiritual world as ignorant fools believe.
Free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and therefore always exists without beginning or end in the spiritual planets.
However, free will in its full potential, is only fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, which is the jiva-souls original perpetual home.
Ultimately in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, because of free will, it is also the jiva's choice of how to serve and not just Krsna's dictates to the jiva-souls.
This is because Krsna only wants loving servants who voluntary choose to be with Him through their own free will and personal offerings of service.
To serve Krsna and love Him voluntarily is never forced by Krsna, it is always voluntary.
To serve Krsna and believe, once you are in Goloka-Vrindavana, never again will you leave or fall down, is true for those who choose that way but not every jiva-souls think that way.
No, that is not Krsna's complete call because it is not only His choice, each jiva-soul has their choice too.
A loving relationship can only exist when there are two consenting personalities, meaning it is also the jiva-soul's choice to remain there as servant of the servant, or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana if they want.
The jiva-soul's independent nature actually allows them to make their own choices, including leaving the spiritual world if they choose.
The relationship between servant and Master is never one-way or a one-sided affair, never impersonal like that, it is a perpetual caring relationship based on reciprocation and loving exchanges between two.
The promise by Krsna that the jiva-soul will never again fall down into the material world, is from His point of view as explained above.
Ultimately it is not only Krsna's will and complete control, no, it is a joint decision between the jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa.
The spiritual worlds are not dictatorships where one is a yes man or women denying their personal contributions and offerings.
And yes, over 90% of jiva-soul's do choose to accept Krsna's promise and never leave the spiritual worlds.
This means less than 10% do choose to leave, and that is their right otherwise what is the point of having free will?
The fact is each jiva-soul is an independent unique individual with 78.125% of Krsna's qualities and attributes with their own personality, sense of self and unique identity.
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here? Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).
The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal voluntary offerings based on free will and selfless loving reciprocation with Krsna, it is never a "one-sided affair" of only obeying and being told what to do.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is never a "one way street" where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that they only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique person they are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
The jiva-souls do not lose their independence, free-will, individual and personal identity in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls however, are also eternally dependent on Krsna and His energies without beginning or end even though they are simultaneously independent.
We can never be truly independent because everything, all that there is, belongs to Krsna. In other words we are always independent living entities but depend on Krsna for our existence, just like the Sun-rays cannot exist without the Sun-disc.
In other words, the jiva-souls must always depend on Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana, Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets, and Maha-Visnu in the material creation.
Visnu-tattva expansions like Maha-Visnu and Garbhodakashayi Visnu, provide all facilities in the material creation to the jiva-souls who have chosen to enter the material creation.
As said above, no jiva-souls are created by Maha-Visnu, they only go to Him on their journey to the material creation after leaving Vaikuntha.
The fact is because we CAN voluntarily choose to be with Krsna, or reject Him, then there can be increasing endeavors of loving exchanges and reciprocation due to choice or free will expanding one's ability to contribute, make personal offerings and serve Krsna and His devotees.*^^*.
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.