Saturday, April 2, 2022

The correct understanding of "sakti" is it means all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of sakti-tattva.

The Visnu-tattva Personalities can never forget Krsna because they are direct expansions of Krsna playing different roles in Krsna's own pastimes.

For example, the Pancha-tattva are a combination mostly Visnu-tattva, with one being jiva-tattva and another influenced by the mood of Siva-tattva.

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself (Svayam Bhagavan) a combination of Radharani and Krsna.

Śrī Nityānānda Rāma Prabhu is Kṛṣṇa's first personal expansion with the combined power of Balarama.

Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the combined power of Śri Viṣṇu and Śri Śiva (Harihara).

Śrī Śrīvāsa Thakura is Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee and symbolizes devotion (Bhakti).

Śrī Gadadhāra Pandita is the combined power of Kṛṣṇa's internal energy (Śakti).

"I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, who is nondifferent from His features as a devotee (bhakta-rūpa; Śrī Caitanya), devotional incarnation (svarūpakam; Śrī Nityānānda), devotional manifestation (bhaktāvatāraṁ; Śrī Advaita), pure devotee (bhaktākhyaṁ; Śrī Śrīvāsa), and devotional energy (bhakta-śaktikam; Śrī Gadadhāra)." (CC Adi 1.147.6)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsādi. Śrīvāsādi means jīva-tattva. The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined." (Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.5 - Mayapur, March 7, 1974)

Sakti-tattva is not only Visnu-tattva even though sakti-tattva is also called Visnu-sakti-tattva. 

The correct understanding of sakti is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of sakti-tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - ''There are viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is the Supreme Absolute Truth, jīva-tattva is part and parcel, and śakti-tattva is the energy of God." (Lecture on SB 1.5.15 - New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969)

Sakti-tattva personalities, as the internal energy of Krsna, are eternally occupied with their service to the Lord in their full potential.

Such direct expansions in the category of sakti, have the only desire to please Krsna or His Visnu expansion, they can never be covered by Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please Krsna or Visnu due to being indirect and direct expansions of Godhead.

Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are made up by a variety of sakti-tattva living entities.

Sakti-tattva living entities can mean- 

Visnu-tattva (Balarama, Visnu, Narayana, Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakashayi-Visnu etc

Visnu-"sakti"-tattva (Srimati Radharani and Her associates

Siva-tattva (Lord Siva and his many expansions)

jiva-tattva (jiva-souls). 

Visnu-sakti-tattvas can be gopis, gopas (Cow herd boys and girls in Vrindavana) and many, many other personalities in Vrindavana.

There are also the jiva-tattvas (part and parcels of Krsna) playing many roles in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana as well.

Just like the Visnu-sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas are also playing different roles in Krsna's pastimes, the jiva-tattvas also play on the same leavel as these expansions of God (Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva) a but doesn't make them equal to Visnu-tattva or Visnu-sakti-tattvas 

In Goloka Vrindavana no-one knows who is who, who is jiva tattva, who is sakti-tattva or who is jiva tattva, they do not even know this little boy Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the cause of all causes.

As already explained, Visnu-sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas never fall down under the spell. Also the jiva-tattvas or jiva-souls can never become Visnu-sakti-tattvas or Visnu tattvas.

And jiva tattvas can never lose their separate individual independence from Krsna even though technically all living entities are Sakti-tattva expansions of Krsna that are fully dependent on Krsna like the sun rays are expansions that emanate from the Sun.

Even though this is the case of being part and parcel of the Lord, the jiva-souls still has their own independent thinking individual from Krsna.

The words bṛhate namas te have been explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura: bṛhate śrī-kṛṣṇāya.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa the maintainer of all and cause of all causes. We are separate and none separate from Krsna simultaneously.

There are many tattvas, such as viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva, but above everything is the viṣṇu-tattva, which is all-pervading.

This all-pervading feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (10.42), wherein the Lord says:

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

Srila Prabhupada - "Kṛṣṇa says that the entire material world is maintained by His partial representation as Paramātmā. The Lord enters every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then expands Himself as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu to enter the hearts of all living entities and even enter the atoms.

Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Every universe is full of atoms, and the Lord is not only within the universe but also within the atoms. Thus within every atom the Supreme Lord exists in His Viṣṇu feature as Paramātmā, but all the viṣṇu-tattvas emanate from Kṛṣṇa.

As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.2), aham ādir hi devānām: Kṛṣṇa is the ādi, or beginning, of the devas of this material world -Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara. Therefore He is described here as bhagavate bṛhate." (Bhagavad-gīta, 10.42)

So there are differences between different energies or expansions of the Lord. We the jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) are also expansions of Krsna however, the jiva-souls have minute independence and individuality that enables them think separately from Krsna as a unique independent individual called the marginal energy.

The jiva-souls are different from the direct expansions of Krsna like the Visnu-sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas, who are also in the category of being a sakti-tattva living entities, but in this case are direct expansions of Krsna.

They can also be playing the part of gopas and gopis, (cowherd boys and girls) etc in Krsna lila (pastimes in Vrindavan).

Within Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana there are so many expansions of Krsna that the numbers are inconceivable to us.

The jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) can play the role of a gopa or gopi just like the Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva can, but can never be Visnu-tattva or Visnu-sakti-tattvas, who are Krsna Himself expanded as multiple personalities playing a part within Krsna's own pastimes.

We (jiva-souls) can also voluntarily choose to play different roles however, we always remain jiva-tattva (78.125% of Krsna's qualities).

The jiva-tattvas, unlike Visnu-sakti tattvas and Visnu-tattvas, can choose to forget Krsna if they want and enter the mahat-tattva (the material creation of Maha-Visnu) as nitya-baddha and think they are an independent god.

Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattvas do not do that because they are direct expansion of Krsna and only carry out the will of Krsna (Himself).

The jiva-souls eternal constitution position and eternal spiritual body is already there in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan waiting for us to wake up from within this material dream state and return back home back to Godhead.

Just like Jaya and Vijaya's eternal position as gatekeepers of Vaikuntha is always there waiting for their return from falling down into the material creation.

In Vaikuntha there is no concept of past and future time, only the 'individual awareness of the eternal presence of Krsna and being a dependent unique person with a sense of the self that eternally exists there in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

This is how we know all the universe is not ''all-one" with an all pervading consciousness that plays out different roles while contained in different vessels (material bodies), except for Krsna and His unlimited expansions.

The jiva-souls are all individual living entities endowed with free will.

Therefore, the jiva-souls never lose their independence and sense of self as an individual eternal person.

Even a blade of grass, leaf, tree, clouds, rain drops, grains of sand and dirt or chair is a person as that spiritual bodily form in Goloka, everything their is alive as individuals!

Of course, in the material world the jiva-soul's individuality becomes covered by many different species of material bodies but underneath it all the jiva-souls or jiva-tattvas are there as an individual unit.

Therefore, it is very important we understand the jiva-souls have their own perpetual independence, individuality and personality separate from Krsna's Personality.  

The full potential of each jiva-soul is only fully expressed in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, this is what marginal means that makes the jiva-souls the unique person they are eternally with their own unique sense of self.

To say you can never leave Goloka once there is true for most, but not all because we have free will and can choose to miss use our free will at anytime. 

Without having that choice, Prabhupada says, we are no better than a stone, meaning we would not be able to give engage in voluntary loving exchanges.

Sadly, many devotees have found this claim the jiva-souls can fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana at anytime very difficult to accept because Krsna does promise in Bhagavad Gita that once the jiva-souls enter the spiritual worlds, they never again enter the material creation.

So they attempt to ignore the possibility of fall down by saying even though the jiva-souls have free will, it inconceivable why they never again choose to never fall down.

They say this because they know to deny the jiva-souls have their free will eternally in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, means they have no choice in the matter or could they contribute to their loving relation with Krsna.

Having free will allows voluntary emotions and makes one's association with Krsna a two-way street of respectful exchanges.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

So, rather than attempt to understand there is always the possible of fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, they sentimentally ignore the possibility of fall down and just repeat Krsna's promise there is no fall down without giving any proper knowledgeable explanation as why.

An intelligent devotee knows there is always possibility of fall down because of free will.

Even Krsna's promise can be accepted or rejected because of free will. In other words His promise of never again falling down can never be implemented not even by Krsna if the jiva-souls choose not to accept.

Srila Prabhupada confirms this.

Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita, Krsna says, "Once coming to the Spiritual World, he never returns to the material creation. He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes, he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence; you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting you. He says, "You rascal, don’t desire like that, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force. In Bengali, it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me." Is it love? “You love me; otherwise, I will kill you!’ Is that love? So, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me; otherwise, I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is a reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why is one called lover another called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Paramahamsa - "But ultimately, if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the material creation?"

Srila Prabhupada - "There IS return, that is voluntary. Return there is."

Paramahamsa - "If we want."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go and enjoy the material world, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind. He gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got a prison house. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes, like that."

Paramahamsa - ''So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these material bodies, and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles).

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the jiva-souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence."(Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)

Syamasundara - "Can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison some end up back there?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no such thing as permanent because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this; you can do that. All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence; therefore, there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall again if he wants; that choice is always there. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean it is permanent because he can again come back however, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of having independence and free will? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally, he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

Krsna's promise in the Bhagavad Gita is that the jiva-souls will never again fall down from the spiritual world; however, do the jiva-souls also have a say in this due to their free will? 

Even some big, big gurus and sannyasis can not understand that entering Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana is voluntary and not necessarily permanent because there is always free will and the chance of again falling down to the material world Prabhupada has explained above.

The ability of making choices (that simultaneously allows the jiva-souls to increase their unique individual expression of love for Krsna in their own unique way, is always with the marginal living entities (jiva-souls), in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, they always have a choice to stay with Krsna or leave.

To take the free will (of being able to voluntary express one's individuality as a unique contributing independent person) away from the marginal living entities will only deny the individual ability of self expression and voluntary service.

The jiva-souls will lose the individual ability to give and accept love and becomes no better than dead useless stone!

This is because without free will, we lose our sense of independence as a person who always has a unique separate identity and personality from all of other individual jiva-souls, and from Visnu and Krsna as well.

We are not "all-one" once in the spiritual planets, we always have our unique individual personality separate from Krsna, and we always have our free will.

These are important points to understand.


HERE HERE HERE.


We, the jiva-souls are independent thinking living entities eternally, yet also simultaneously part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krsna who is the cause of all causes.

The jiva-souls are parts and parcels of the Lord meant to please Krsna as a unique contributing individual persons, each with their own exclusion character and personality separate from Krsna's Divine Personality.

We are always unique independent individuals in the spiritual worlds. 

Therefore, no one can force the jiva-souls to stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, that choice must be eternally the jiva-souls.

Only Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattvas never fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because they are direct expansions of Krsna playing different roles in Krsna's pastimes and have 93.75 % of Krsna’s qualities making them direct expressions of Krsna Himself.

Some Visnu-sakti-tattvas are gopis including Radharani, gopas, parents, lovers etc and many, many other different personalities in Vrindavana.

Krsna’s brother Balarama is Visnu-tattva and many others are playing different parts in Krsna Lila.

Just like in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes where many are Visnu-tattva playing a roll also.

It is only these residents of Vrindavana who never fall down into forgetfulness.

The fact is, more than 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay in Vaikuntha and never enter the material creation seeking to satisfy selfish desires.

All jiva-souls have only 78.125 % of Krsna’s qualities can leave if they choose at anytime.

Reaching both Vaikuntha Planets and Goloka-Vrindavana is not necessarily permanent.

To be in Vaikuntha does not always guarantee you will stay there forever and never again enter the material world. 

Although as already explained, more than 90% of jiva-souls never choose to forget Krsna because that is their desire and expression of free will.


HERE HERE HERE HERE.


Past Sages and Acharyas say the jivatma can never fall down once they are in Vaikuntha. Yes, the fact is the jivas are not suppose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha and most never do, but Prabhupada has further explained this subject matter also and has said that sadly some jivas DO choose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha however, he explains it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice, less than 10%.

Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”. Los Angeles, June 23, 1975.

Let's clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha.

The jiva-tattva’s do not even know Maya or the material energy exists, however, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jiva-tattva’s makeup and exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

We do not lose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities but depend of Krishna Personally or His many Vishnu expansions who provide all facilities in the material creation.

In other words we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krishna just like the Sun rays cannot exist without the Sun.

The fact is because we can "choose to be with Krishna or reject Him", then there can also be increasing endeavours of loving exchange due to choice.

This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krishna, so the living entity can go to another place outside Vaikuntha if they choose, to try and enjoy without being conscious of Krishna’s existence (that place where one can forget Krishna is called the material creation)

The marginal living entity or jiva-tattva also must have the free will to choose Krishna instead of just being in Vaikuntha without no choice. The point made here is the position of the jivatma in Vaikuntha must be voluntary.

Who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary.

Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krishna.

These qualities are based on the importance of the individual's ability to have "choices" within their experiences as a individual person.

Once again to be truly free there must be the choice of Vaikuntha or its so called opposite where Krishna can be forgotten, the material creation.

Without the jiva-tattva’s being able to choose Krishna or not, then there can never be love, Prabhupada has said to force love is called rape.

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, you love me, you love me, you love me." Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love?" So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. "You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

It takes only free will to live separately from Krsna and this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above - it is simple free will that allows us to be a independent person and enter the material creation too.

To do that one is given material bodies, a subtle and gross body that covers the spiritual form.

In the material world, the jivatma has to put up with the gross material body always being in a state of decay and then eventually being forced to take another gross material body.

Also once in the material creation, you're on your own terms, you are responsible therefore karma begins as soon as you leave Vaikuntha.

No jiva-souls originate from the dormant Brahmajyoti, they often fall to it but have not come from there as Srila Prabhupada tells us.

Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Srila Prabhupada - "The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.

The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down."

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna Happening record album New York December 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (New York lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task.'' (New York lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976.)

Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB 4.29.83 Purport)

Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Chakravarti, asked Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada.

"Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva?"

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta told him, "You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter."


HERE HERE HERE.


Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ”We want freedom.”‘ They replied, “You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you.”

But finally, he told them, “We want the freedom to do wrong.” So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.

Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination.

As a result of this first action, everything else has developed.

So, in different ranks the species have been divided from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way.

The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved.” End of quote

Srila Prabhupada makes our "original position" with Krishna very clear.

And yes, maya cannot be blamed for our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha, nothing material can exist there.

But free will does and ALWAYS WILL exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana. Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.

Srila Prabhupada on the other hand chose to come here to serve Krishna's plan to attract the fallen souls in the material universe back home back to Godhead.

Many devotees also come here to preach Krishna Consciousness. There are three ways to come here, as a devotee who preaches, as a devotee who plays the part as a great demon like Jai and Vijai the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha. And those who "choose" to just forget and give up Krishna's association and do their own thing.

Also one can never have material desires in Vaikuntha because Maya does NOT exist there. Maya therefore cannot be blamed for tempting us and causing our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha. Nothing material can exist there.

But ''free will'', ''independence'' and ''individuality'' does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

We therefore leave because of free will and the ability to choose to accept or reject Krishna.

As an individual ''person'' endowed with independent thought and identity, we are able to make such chooses.

What does the majority of people think being a "PERSON" really means after you surrender to Krishna?

Do they think entering Gods Kingdom they lose their sense of self and become some "yes man or women" in Krishna's presence where one is a mindless none thinking denier of the "individual self" and the unique qualities they exclusively have that makes them the independent person they REALLY are?

Do they think surrender means we give up our individuality? Sadly, so many have no idea what real "personalism" is which is a word tied to individuality.

The idea of "don't think just do what your told" is impersonalist nonsense because it denies ''you'' to use your own abilities and talents to contribute something unique to your personality that no one else may have.

So no, "you" DO NOT give up your independent individuality and sense of self worth and esteem to be fully surrendered and "dependant" on Krishna, maintaining that individuality is part of surrendering.

In fact in Goloka your individual independence and dependence on Krishna go together side by side increasing simultaneously at the same time and is always expanding in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

It takes spiritual intelligence to understand what real surrender is, and that includes understanding ‘’you’’ are eternally an independent individual person with your own sense of "individual self" separate from all other individual jiva souls.

Although Krishna always accompanies the jiva-tattva souls as a friend and witness to the their individual actions because we are eternally parts and parcels of the Lord.

The jiva-tattva is never part of an "all one impersonal collective" within God's Kingdom, no, that is a description of impersonalism.

Impersonalism means believing that in Vaikuntha we give up our independence and individuality and become part of an "all one collective consciousness". Living an impersonal existence like this is to be devoid of one’s personal contributions that makes ''you'', who you really are, as a person, as Krishna's eternal servant, as a unique living entity who can contribute the best of ''your'' individual abilities to Krishna.

On the other hand personalism means the individual jiva-tattva is be able to grow and flourish as an independent living being giving their own personal contributions of devotional service to Krishna.

To ''deny'' the jiva-tattva's ''individuality'' and ''unique independent sense of self exclusive to each personality making them all different'' is Mayavadi impersonalism. Many today have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it.

Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krishna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.


HERE HERE 


Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.

So the conclusion is Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the jiva from Vaikuntha found in the 4th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana;

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.28.53,

''The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world''. End of quote

Srila Prabhupada answered philosophical questions from leaders and expected them to teach the correct understanding to devotees in general.

Several of the most profound answers regarding our fall from Vaikuntha were written to Jagadisa dasa when he was engaged as Temple president for Toronto.

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul''. (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence’’. (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - “But his relationship with Krishna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new'' (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

The spiritual worlds are full of unlimited variety and varigatedness in an atmosphere that never decays and where no two jiva souls are the same.

In Goloka-Vrindavana, each jiva-soul naturally gives the very best of who they are as an independent thinking individual person.

Even on the Spiritual level, the best offering a jiva-tattva can give to Krishna, is pleasing His great devotees or dear friends.

Also, because of unlimited variety, each souls offerings to the Lord are often a very different standard to what other souls offer.

Just like the story of Hunaman building the Bridge from Sri Lanka to India.

In the construction of the Bridge, there were many small ants that also helped and contributed to the best of their abilities in gathering small pebbles to build the bridge and please Lord Ramachandra.

In the eyes of Lord Ramachandra, the massive boulders Hunaman gathered in his service, and the small pebbles the ants gathered in their service, was equal in the Lords eyes because each were offering their very best.

In this way, each jiva-tattva has their own level of excellence for them. This means the full potential of one soul, is a very different full potential to another soul, like the above story.

Also it is important to understand that no jiva-tattva's are the same in the spiritual world.

All the personalities of each jiva tattva are different in many ways, and unique to each of them.

Goloka Vrindavana, or the Kingdom of God, is where the jiva tattva's natural independent identity, and personal individual abilities shine and flourish at their full potential, allowing the jiva tattva to experience the full realization AS their svarupa spiritual body.

As explained, no two jiva-tattvas are the same in the spiritual world, EVEN when they have a 4 armed Spiritual body in Vaikuntha.

This is because all jiva tattva's in Vaikuntha have their own individual identity, personality and character unique to them expressed fully.

Unlike the mundane material creation where it is suppressed and buried within the horrible frustrating cycle of birth and death.

In this way, each jiva tattva's personal sense of self is part and parcel of their marginal constitution eternally in both the spiritual and material worlds, but only experienced in its full potential in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan.

These are the qualities of each jiva-tattva soul that enable them to selflessly serve Krishna in their own unique personal way, exclusive to all jiva tattva's in Goloka-Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.

Surrender to Krishna therefore, NEVER extinguishes one's personal sense of self that is eternally an independent thinking person with free will and individual identity.

Real love is ALWAYS reciprocal, it is NEVER impersonal because surrender to Krishna NEVER diminishes one's sense of self that can offer, in service to Krishna and His pure devotees, the very best they can give. To be Krishna's eternal servant, these qualities must be there.

If we lost our individuality, free will and the ability to express our personal love for Krishna in our own unique way, then that will only make us no better than a dead stone.**.^^



















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